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Thread: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

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    Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Hi,

    I have had an in ground concrete (pebblecrete finish) pool for 25 years. I had successfully run it for many years using Biogard Smart Sticks (chlorine). In 2014 the pool equipment needed some major overhauls and I decided to take the opportunity to automate the system as much as possible. After draining and acid washing the pool, the pool shop installed a Hydroxypure System (hydrogen peroxide and ozone), complete with a new glass bead filter, and 3 speed pump.

    The system worked well for a few months, but then the problems started with algae that could not be controlled. (This was using the old hydrogen peroxide formula - I believe that they have a better product now.) After many months Waterco eventually agreed to replace the system with an automatic chlorine/acid system (Waterco's rebranded Chemigem system). The pool shop removed all the hydrogen peroxide (I assume with large amounts of chlorine), and after settling down the system ran well for several months.

    Now, however, I am having problems with algae again. Previously, I could remove the algae with a shock dose, but now it comes straight back. The other problem is that, after a shock dose, and when the (dead?) algae settles on the bottom, the filter does not seem to collect the fine particles any more when I vacuum, and the pool water becomes cloudy again as it is returned to the pool.

    I have decided to take control back again from the pool shop! I have bought a Taylor K-2006 test kit from the States. I am about to SLAM the pool and try to eliminate whatever is causing the problems. I noticed the thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ol-to-chlorine about converting from a Baqua pool. Is it a similar process to convert from Hydroxypure (hydrogen peroxide)? If so, how important is the step to replace the media in the filter? This was not done by the pool shop. Could that be why I am having so much trouble, and why the filter seems unable to filter out the dead algae?

    Here are my latest test results: The CYA is too high for my liking (the pool shop added CYA last time they were here!). My TA and CH are also a bit low.
    PH 7.4
    CYA 55
    FC 8.5 (on the way down after shock dose)
    CC 0.5
    TA 40
    CH 225
    Temp 30Deg C

    Should I go straight to a SLAM, or does the filter medium need replacement? I am also going to try the Lo-Chlor Pool Sentinel to see if that helps.

    Many thanks for any help. Finding this site was a real eye opener!
    IG Concrete 10mtr X 4mtr oval shape, 50,000 litres, pebblecrete, built 1990. Updated equipment 2014 to Waterco Eco 602 Sand Filter with Glass Bead media, Waterco 3-speed pump, and cyclone filter. Chemigem (Waterco branded) Chlorine and acid system.

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Welcome, Aussie!

    Are those results from your new kit?

    Sorry, I can't answer your questions about conversion, etc. Someone will be along soon!

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Yes, results are from the test kit.

    I am determined to take back control of my pool, so have been reading this site for a while. I used to be able to control my pool just by looking at it (more or less!). Now, however, it has just become a constant fight. Hence the questions!
    IG Concrete 10mtr X 4mtr oval shape, 50,000 litres, pebblecrete, built 1990. Updated equipment 2014 to Waterco Eco 602 Sand Filter with Glass Bead media, Waterco 3-speed pump, and cyclone filter. Chemigem (Waterco branded) Chlorine and acid system.

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Skip,the magic potions that promise to fix your problems. Follow the Baqua conversion instructions.

    Chlorine and brushing are what you need.

    Can you open your sand filter and check out the media?

    When you change I would suggest plain old filter sand rather than glass media. Sand works fine and the only one who benefits is the pool shop who sell you the glass media.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Simply put, follow the SLAM procedure. The peroxide is, or should be, all gone by now. Chlorine and peroxide destroy one another so, as soon as you started to get an FC reading, that meant that all of the peroxide was neutralized. Ozone, as well, should be completely gone by now. Your main problem is you have algae (and bacteria too) everywhere in your pool and it needs to be eliminated. That can only be done by following TFP's SLAM procedure to the letter and maintaining the shock level of chlorine until all three SLAM criteria are met. It's really as simple as that.

    Good luck,

    Matt
    Matt
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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Simply put, follow the SLAM procedure. The peroxide is, or should be, all gone by now. Chlorine and peroxide destroy one another so, as soon as you started to get an FC reading, that meant that all of the peroxide was neutralized. Ozone, as well, should be completely gone by now. Your main problem is you have algae (and bacteria too) everywhere in your pool and it needs to be eliminated. That can only be done by following TFP's SLAM procedure to the letter and maintaining the shock level of chlorine until all three SLAM criteria are met. It's really as simple as that.

    Good luck,

    Matt
    I agree with Matt on this one. This is not the same as a "Baqua" type conversion. Treat it as a SLAM, and do it to the letter. Peroxide and Ozone do not remain in the pool like a Biguanide substance.
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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    I'm not sure I'd want to swim in this:

    http://www.clarkrubber.com.au/media/...inel%20174.pdf

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by ewkearns View Post
    I'm not sure I'd want to swim in this:

    http://www.clarkrubber.com.au/media/...inel%20174.pdf
    It's basically a flocculant. So, once again, not needed for a pool. It's a waste of money and it will do little to help with an algae problem.

    To the OP,

    The solution to your problem is clear and simple - you must SLAM your pool. Save your money on the bags of "magic powder" and go buy lots and lots of liquid chlorine. That is what you need.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by William2015 View Post
    I am also going to try the Lo-Chlor Pool Sentinel to see if that helps.
    Please save your money and just follow the SLAM instructions.

    For all the Chlorine you'll need here is a handy calculator to be able to find out how much each bottle of different strength and size compares. Gives you an "apples to apples" value. Chlorine Price Per Ounce Calculator
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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by William2015 View Post
    Is it a similar process to convert from Hydroxypure (hydrogen peroxide)? If so, how important is the step to replace the media in the filter?
    Touching on this question in itself,
    This system does not appear to be the same as Baquacil as it doesn't appear to use any Biguanide, which is what often makes it so you must change out your media. While I wouldn't suggest any user use the glass beads due to the extra cost, I don't see any reason why you need to change the media at this point in time.

    Can you post a photo of your water??

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    It may be worth while adding some DE or fiber alternative to DE to the filter which will help filter out the dead algae.
    25,000 gallon in ground white plaster- 1 1/2 HP Pentair SuperFlo pump - 60 sqft FNS DE filter (with FiberClear), 1999 Sundance Optima 850 hot tub.
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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post

    When you change I would suggest plain old filter sand rather than glass media.
    Sand works fine and the only one who benefits is the pool shop who sell you the glass media.

    This is not true....glass media works just as well as sand in my experience.

    When I did a mustard slam once, and the water was milky white from brushing dead algae and couldn't be seen
    through more than 6 inch depth the glass media in my filter cleared it up to crystal clear in
    the same time a sand filter would take.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Sand as a filtering media has been used successfully in millions of pools, hundreds of aquariums and other applications.

    I have no reason to think badly about glass media but it certainly does not have the track record as sand.

    Since OP already has glass, I think I would stay with it......really just being kinda lazy. If the filter was empty, I would put in sand.

    Let's don't sidetrack OP's quest to get his pool clear.

    William 2015, I am not piling on, but I suggest your follow the SLAM procedure to the letter and stay out of the pool store.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Many thanks for all the answers. I am just in the process of following the SLAM instructions. I will let you all know how it goes.

    Here are some photos of the pool taken 24 hours ago. It is much greener today!.

    Pool1.jpg
    Pool2.jpg
    IG Concrete 10mtr X 4mtr oval shape, 50,000 litres, pebblecrete, built 1990. Updated equipment 2014 to Waterco Eco 602 Sand Filter with Glass Bead media, Waterco 3-speed pump, and cyclone filter. Chemigem (Waterco branded) Chlorine and acid system.

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Happy slam.... Let us know if you have ANY questions!

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Not a problem! We can help clear that one easily.
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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Slam completed and successful. Many thanks to all. See attached photo.

    I had to remove the cyclone pre-filter to clean it out. It had a whole lot of gritty black stuff (like good quality soil) in it. I assume that the glass bead filter had the same and that this was stopping the filter from working properly. After the SLAM it now appears to be working normally again, so I don't think I need to open it up and clean the medium.

    The pool test results this morning are:
    Ph 7.4
    CYA 50
    FC 12
    CC 0
    TA 40
    CH 220
    Temp 29deg C

    The pool (and many others built by the same builder) has always wanted to stabilise at a Ph of about 7.7 to 8.0. I am now going to bring the TA and CH up and manually get the pool balanced to my goal levels. I will then set the Chemigem's ORP from its reading then.

    Following a post by Chem Geek (many thanks for all your info) on high acid demand in a Chemigem system, these are my goal levels - any comments would be appreciated:
    Ph 7.7
    CYA 40-50
    FC 4-5
    TA 60
    CH 290

    This should get the CSI close to zero.

    Pool3.jpg
    IG Concrete 10mtr X 4mtr oval shape, 50,000 litres, pebblecrete, built 1990. Updated equipment 2014 to Waterco Eco 602 Sand Filter with Glass Bead media, Waterco 3-speed pump, and cyclone filter. Chemigem (Waterco branded) Chlorine and acid system.

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Congrats! Did you do an OCLT or two to make sure you were done slamming?

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Yes. CC, OCLT, and water clarity tests all passed.
    IG Concrete 10mtr X 4mtr oval shape, 50,000 litres, pebblecrete, built 1990. Updated equipment 2014 to Waterco Eco 602 Sand Filter with Glass Bead media, Waterco 3-speed pump, and cyclone filter. Chemigem (Waterco branded) Chlorine and acid system.

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    Re: Problems going back to chlorine after failed Hydroxypure conversion

    Great! The pic had some strange shading.... Woot! Great job!

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