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Thread: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

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    cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Hi,
    After basically taking last swim season getting very frustrated and eventually mending pool leaks over the winter (July-September here!) I have now got a pool that's holding water, has been SO much easier to adjust seeing as my chemistry was moving around wildly due to constant refilling and all has been going swimmingly...

    Except over the last few days the pool has developed a cloudiness. Now, I think it's calcium because, in my very old pool, the cracked tiles just above the waterline have a got a deposit on the cracks (i've chipped some off and it bubbles in acid). The calcium test also shows a reduction from 425 to 350 which is odd as I have not replaced 18% of my water! (I've barely had to fill at all since repairing the leak) also my pH is reducing, could that be because the calcium is precipitating out to solid?

    My current test results are as follows:

    FC: 6
    CC: 0
    pH: 7.4 (was 7.6 two weeks ago)
    TA: 120
    CH: 350 (was 425 two weeks ago)
    CYA: 75
    Salt: 4300
    Water Temp is between 28C/82F and 30C/86F

    therefore CSI (from PoolMath): -0.19

    Prior to the clouding, I had what I thought was a pretty well balanced pool with a CSI of around 0.08!
    And searches I do to find out about calcium cloudiness usually suggest reducing CSI to negative, which I already am, so I'm at a loss firstly as to what has caused the clouding, and secondly what to do about it!

    Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks.
    Steven
    18.5k US gallon/69kl IG tiled with an Onga Pantera 25" sand filter, powered by a Davey Silensor 200 1HP/0.75kW pump coupled to a Zodiac TRi (mid) SWG K-2006C Test kit imported from the USA...
    in Adelaide, Australia...

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Just wondering how your pH was holding up? Have you added any calcium products recently?

    Maybe reducing your pH to 7.2 and then bringing it back when it rises. This may also assist with bringing down your TA which seems a little high as well.
    11 000 gallons, IG, Fibreglass, Monarch Sand Filter, Davey Typhoon C100M 1HP pump, Davey Chloromatic Mc16CTO ESR SWG, Davey Pool Wall Climba Robot, Daisy Solar Cover,
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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Have you had any issues with your FC lately? I ask because cloudiness is most often an algae problem than calcium and with your test results I agree that it seems unlikely you would have a calcium problem.

    I suggest that tonight you raise your FC to 10 or above, shut down your SWG and run an OCLT. If it fails then you will need to SLAM, if it passes then you have ruled organics out and can continue looking at calcium as the possible culprit.

    Honestly I hope it is algae, that might be simpler to correct...
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donldson View Post
    Have you had any issues with your FC lately? I ask because cloudiness is most often an algae problem than calcium and with your test results I agree that it seems unlikely you would have a calcium problem.

    I suggest that tonight you raise your FC to 10 or above, shut down your SWG and run an OCLT. If it fails then you will need to SLAM, if it passes then you have ruled organics out and can continue looking at calcium as the possible culprit.

    Honestly I hope it is algae, that might be simpler to correct...
    I concur. My CH is more than double yours and I can still see that the screws in the drain cover are phillips head. High CH alone will not cause cloudiness.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Thanks for the replies. My FC has dropped to 4 on occasion (getting timing and power of SWG right) and I bumped it back to 7 with liquid chlorine rather than relying on SWG.

    I will try an OCLT to see what happens and get back to you with results.

    Still curious as to what happened to my calcium... that stuff's expensive!

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    The pH has dropped some, which I thought was curious running an SWG and a relatively high TA. No calc products added since initial raising of CH to 425.
    I considered my TA was a bit high when setting it all up this year, but also read a thread that said it's not really necessary to chase a low figure just for the sake of it if the CSI is within range.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say "bringing it back when it rises". The pH?
    Do you mean raising the pH with aeration?

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Yes but thinking that your pH would tend to rise anyway with the SWG and then actively running the pH at a lower level at least temporarily to see if it cleared up the cloudiness. As mentioned this would also assist with lowering your TA.

    But definitely doing the OCLT to eliminate organics as the cause in the first instance is a good idea.
    11 000 gallons, IG, Fibreglass, Monarch Sand Filter, Davey Typhoon C100M 1HP pump, Davey Chloromatic Mc16CTO ESR SWG, Davey Pool Wall Climba Robot, Daisy Solar Cover,
    K-2006

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Yeah, the OCLT is the next step. If you fail that test, then you SLAM. If you pass that test, I would suggest you lower your pH down to 7.0 and monitor it and hold it there for several days......that might help.

    PS - when you drop your pH that low, you want to manage it carefully......don't go lower than 6.8 nor higher than 7.2
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    3 tests later and I'm a little more confused than I was!
    I passed the OCLT, tests and procedure below in case I did anything daft.

    Yesterday evening I tested and got:
    FC 5.0
    CC 0.4
    pH 7.4 (I habitually have my wife look at the colours for a second opinion)
    TA 120
    CH 350


    I bumped FC up with 3L of liquid chlorine and turned the SWG off. Pump and filter still on for mixing.
    I tested after dark and got
    FC 9.5
    CC 0.5 (although the pink was very faint)
    pH 7.4 (wife checked)
    and all other tests the same.

    Well this morning all was the same except the pH has gone up to 7.6! (again wife checked).

    Putting that into PoolMath gives me a CSI of 0.

    The chlorine should not have raised my pH should it!?
    Steven
    18.5k US gallon/69kl IG tiled with an Onga Pantera 25" sand filter, powered by a Davey Silensor 200 1HP/0.75kW pump coupled to a Zodiac TRi (mid) SWG K-2006C Test kit imported from the USA...
    in Adelaide, Australia...

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    It seems that the bump of FC up to 9.5 has made an inroad into clarity of the pool, so the cloudiness may have been the beginnings, or end, of some algae after all, despite the all clear on an OCLT.
    I'm none the wiser as to why my CH has apparently dropped, or why my pH seems to be testing strangely. I am considering that it may have been testing error somehow. I will need some new reagents soon, so I'll head off to the Aussie test kit threads...

    The maxim of chlorine and patience being the great healer is holding, so I will keep my FC higher for a bit.

    Thank you for the encouragement for me to stay with the basics, as opposed to jumping off at a tangent as I am wont to do on occasion!
    Steven
    18.5k US gallon/69kl IG tiled with an Onga Pantera 25" sand filter, powered by a Davey Silensor 200 1HP/0.75kW pump coupled to a Zodiac TRi (mid) SWG K-2006C Test kit imported from the USA...
    in Adelaide, Australia...

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Nice job. Yes, usually the basics are usually all that's needed. It is possible that raising your FC level skewed your pH reading. FC levels at 10 or higher tend to generate higher than accurate readings for the pH.
    10,000 gallon in ground diamond brite, Circupool si30+, Hayward C900 cartridge, 1.5hp Flotec single speed pump

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    Re: cloudiness, perhaps calc. results don't suggest a problem though! what to do!?

    Glad to hear that the cloudiness is clearing up for you. It may very well be algae despite your OCLT pass.

    I would also suspect that it is the aeration being created by your SWG that has increased your pH rise especially with a higher TA.

    The only real way that you can be losing calcium is through backwashing/draining or splash out so other than that I guess testing error is the only other alternative. Just running some quick figures through Poolmath to drop to the amount you mentioned (435-350) is an 18% drop in water volume and that's not taking into account any CH being added from fill water.

    Keep us posted as to how things progress.
    11 000 gallons, IG, Fibreglass, Monarch Sand Filter, Davey Typhoon C100M 1HP pump, Davey Chloromatic Mc16CTO ESR SWG, Davey Pool Wall Climba Robot, Daisy Solar Cover,
    K-2006

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