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Thread: CCL vs TF-100 Results

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    CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Hi All,

    This post will be particularly relevant to any Aussie readers,

    My TF-100 kit arrived yesterday, which I had ordered through Australia Post's "ShopMate" Freight Forwarding service. In terms of shipping it cost roughly $50 in total, ShopMate shipping costs depend on weight.
    I ordered the TF-100 Kit + Speedstir + Taylor Salt Test

    I had ordered it prior to Christmas, and with the various public holidays etc during this period it did take a while to get here, so I cant really comment on the actual speed, but it did have a fast turn around from the initial shipping, to the forwarding on.

    Prior to ordering the TF-100 I had been using the Australian Company Clearchoicelabs full test kit, which has been working great and the earlier identified an issue with their pH test, they have rectified this and sent me a free one just this week.

    Therefore I thought it would be interesting to compare the 2 kits , particularly for us Aussies who find it difficult to obtain reliable kits in Australia and usually have to incur huge shipping costs and get them shipped from overseas.

    Test done using the same pool water sample

    ClearChoiceLabs ---- TF-100

    FC: 8 ---- 7.5

    CC: <0.5---- <0.5

    pH: 7.6---- 7.5

    TA: 90---- 80

    CH: 240---- 300

    CYA: 50---- 50

    Salt: 5800 (WaterMaid)---- 4600 (Taylor's)



    As seen the tests are fairly comparable with the exception of the CH, Which I even retested on both and still got the same result, so I can't explain this one. The Taylor drop salt test would appear to be more reliable than the magicmaid hydrometer (both independent from CCL & TF anyway)

    I think this could provide some reassurance to those who have used the CCL kit that it is a viable option for Aussies wanting to get a reliable kit quickly and without the extra shipping costs.

    Feedback welcome
    3yr old 60,000L (15.8k Gal) Fibreglass IG, Viron eVo P600 pump, Hayward Pro Series Filter (glass media), Zodiac SWG, Zodiac VX55 4WD, Solar Heated

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    What's the CCL procedure for CH measurements?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Never mind, I found it...
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    What's the CCL procedure for CH measurements?

    25ml Sample (high sensitivity test) , 20 drops of Calcium Buffer, 7 drops of harness detection, count drops of titrating reagent and x10
    3yr old 60,000L (15.8k Gal) Fibreglass IG, Viron eVo P600 pump, Hayward Pro Series Filter (glass media), Zodiac SWG, Zodiac VX55 4WD, Solar Heated

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Well, at least the critical tests (FC/CC, CYA) agree to within the margin of error. pH I would expect to be a little variable but being within 0.2 pH units is way more than good enough for pool water chemistry. TA is within the margin of error too. The hydrometer, sadly, is just a toy - it's not temperature compensated and they are notoriously hard to get an accurate result from. The good news is that it doesn't really matter what your exact salt level is as long as you are in the ball park and you make the SWG happy.

    As for CH, it's hard to know. Both providers use the same chemistry (Eriochrome black indicator with EDTA titrant and a calcium buffering agent for Mg removal). There could be subtle differences in the formulation of the dye for removal of metal interferences. The good news is, for what you need it for, the results are good enough.

    Glad to hear you guys (and gals) down under have a good source of test chemicals....now if only you could help out your Canadians friends so that they could get some good test kits at a decent price, that would be great!!
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    That is interesting stuff! I would love for you to run them one more time to confirm (if you are comfy using the reagents).

    How long did the sample sit before doing the second FC/CC test? Those tests are more time sensitive. If you do run a comparison test again, maybe you could do the FC/CC tests first.

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Those results look good to me.

    Nice to see the comparisom between the hydrometer and the Talor salt test. I too think the hydrometer is a bit of a toy although the CCL one is at least calibrated at 25degC, mine is an older version calibrated at 20degC which makes it a bit useless. The calibration temp should be engraved on the bottom. For the price though I think CCL would be better off offering a cheap half decent TDS meter with some accurate calibtation fluid. If I were using a CCL hydrometer I would first adjust the sample temp to 25degC to avoid the temperature compensation issue.


    Does the CCL total pool testing kit come with a box to keep it all together or is it a collection of individual kits?

    Steve.
    Steve.
    30,000L (8,000g) Pebblecrete | Davey 3sp Eco pump | Poolrite sand filter & SWCG |
    Waterco solar panels & Astral E140 pump| K2006, CCL reagents, BlueDevil pH, Salt meter & K1766 | Town water - pH 7.2, TA 50, CH 60 | Esky full of coldies |

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Quote Originally Posted by AUSpool View Post
    Does the CCL total pool testing kit come with a box to keep it all together or is it a collection of individual kits?

    Steve.

    Hi Steve

    The CCL kit comes in a box with each test individually packaged in a resealable plastic bag

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    You could go shopping for a fishing tackle box.

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Very interesting results Hawk and thanks for providing your data- I am only using their FAS DPD titrating regent for FC but am very happy with it despite the fact that the drops don't always come out cleanly unlike the the Taylor version which is much more consistent. But at least it is 'affordably accessible' and does the job.

    It would be good to see you run another battery of tests as a comparison.
    11 000 gallons, IG, Fibreglass, Monarch Sand Filter, Davey Typhoon C100M 1HP pump, Davey Chloromatic Mc16CTO ESR SWG, Davey Pool Wall Climba Robot, Daisy Solar Cover,
    K-2006

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Thanks for the write up and test results side by side.

    This will be interesting to follow.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Quote Originally Posted by AUSpool View Post
    Those results look good to me.


    Does the CCL total pool testing kit come with a box to keep it all together or is it a collection of individual kits?

    Steve.
    I have the Clear Choice kit and it's OK in it's cardboard box, with instructions handy on the lid. I did see a simple plastic tool box in Bunnings that I thought about getting for about $4 just for something more durable
    Approx 10,500 US gallon IG fibreglass (40,000 litres)
    Onga LCF90 cartridge filter. Hychlor Migty Mini 72543 pump. Clearwater LM Express 40 SWG

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    There was a thread where several people showed how they store their test stuff.

    The ones I like the best were tackle box ones. Every thing had its own spot.

    I can't find the thread right now but if I find it I will post a link.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    There was a thread where several people showed how they store their test stuff.

    The ones I like the best were tackle box ones. Every thing had its own spot.

    I can't find the thread right now but if I find it I will post a link.

    Kim
    TF-100 Storage Box
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Thanks for posting these results. I've recently bought the CCL kit and this is good reassurance.

    I found that the dropper bottles don't always provide a good clean drop, more of a splutter. If this happens, does that mean the test is now ruined or just don't count that as a drop?

    On another slightly unrelated note, the tfp recommended levels page doesn't have a colomn for concrete/ pebble create finish. Is this the same as plaster finish?
    58,000L Pebblecrete, PureSilk SWG 25G, Hayward 24" Sand Filter, Hayward TriStar VS Pump, Astral RolaChem RC1 acid feeder, Maytronics Dolphin M4 Cleaner

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Quote Originally Posted by squibcakes View Post
    Thanks for posting these results. I've recently bought the CCL kit and this is good reassurance.

    I found that the dropper bottles don't always provide a good clean drop, more of a splutter. If this happens, does that mean the test is now ruined or just don't count that as a drop?

    On another slightly unrelated note, the tfp recommended levels page doesn't have a colomn for concrete/ pebble create finish. Is this the same as plaster finish?
    Yup, it's plaster.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Is it all of the bottles or just one? I would try wiping the bottle with a damp towel and see if that helps. IF it does it on every drop I would look to see if there is a burr of some sort in the hole.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    It depends a bit on what reagent it is. If it's a buffering reagent for Mg removal it wouldn't make much difference but may be a bit more important if it's a titration reagent and you get a lot of splattering. Having used many kits over the years the best advise I can offer is to go slow, squeeze slow, count carefully, invert the bottle slowly and hold at a slight angle, sometimes wiping or dabbing the end of the inverted bottle with piece of paper towel can help. If you do get splatter and most to all goes in it would probably be ok but if every drop is a splatter I would question my results. Next time you get splatter run the test again to compare results - that way your testing or verifying you unique technique to yourself. I would like to someone else's view on this.

    Treat a pebble create / concrete as plaster which I guess is plaster on concrete. The only difference is that for plaster, concrete, or pebble create we need to raise the calcium so the bulk water doesn't leach calcium or magnesium (+ ions) from the concrete.

    Getting slightly off topic but, if anyone is interested, and if Taylor or CCL get into product development, get or have a look at the Salifet KK/ALK kit for marine aquariums. That is probably the best kit I've ever used, it provides a mini burette for titration.
    Steve.
    30,000L (8,000g) Pebblecrete | Davey 3sp Eco pump | Poolrite sand filter & SWCG |
    Waterco solar panels & Astral E140 pump| K2006, CCL reagents, BlueDevil pH, Salt meter & K1766 | Town water - pH 7.2, TA 50, CH 60 | Esky full of coldies |

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    I found that the dropper bottles don't always provide a good clean drop, more of a splutter. If this happens, does that mean the test is now ruined or just don't count that as a drop?
    Splutter? As in getting air into the bottle. I think there is something wrong with your technique.

    Hold the bottle almost vertical and slowly squeeze until a drop literally FALLS of the dropper tip.....don't squirt it.

    Done properly, that dropper tip and reagent can't "splutter".
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    Quote Originally Posted by squibcakes View Post
    Thanks for posting these results. I've recently bought the CCL kit and this is good reassurance.

    I found that the dropper bottles don't always provide a good clean drop, more of a splutter. If this happens, does that mean the test is now ruined or just don't count that as a drop?

    On another slightly unrelated note, the tfp recommended levels page doesn't have a colomn for concrete/ pebble create finish. Is this the same as plaster finish?
    I was finding with the FC test this happened from time to time, but as I have gained a little more experience (and I mean a little - daly testing for week!) it has improved. When it happened to me, I made a note of how many "half" drops there were and took a reading as if they were full drops and one as if they were half drops, assuming I was safely somewhere in that range and knowing I was doing a test agaiin the next day as practice. The last three tests have gone swimmingly no spluttery drops or two drops when I was expecting one but squeezed too hard.
    Approx 10,500 US gallon IG fibreglass (40,000 litres)
    Onga LCF90 cartridge filter. Hychlor Migty Mini 72543 pump. Clearwater LM Express 40 SWG

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    Re: CCL vs TF-100 Results

    This is clearly an issue with the design of the CCL FC titration bottle. I have done the FAS DPD test numerous times with both the Taylors and CCL versions and have experienced the splutter or dribble even though it seems intermittent. No such experience with the Taylor version. I will email CCL to give them the feedback which they always seem appreciative of. As mentioned I don't think it's a big deal but certainly a little annoying.
    11 000 gallons, IG, Fibreglass, Monarch Sand Filter, Davey Typhoon C100M 1HP pump, Davey Chloromatic Mc16CTO ESR SWG, Davey Pool Wall Climba Robot, Daisy Solar Cover,
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