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Thread: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

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    can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    my pool guy wants to do this tomorrow if pH is too high and alkalinity is below 80. i've never done this- always wait 24 hours. is this ok?

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    That is a little counter productive. Do you do your own testing? Can you post a full set of numbers?
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    If the pH is constantly going too high, then you don't want to raise the TA.

    Is this a salt pool?

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    Always remember.......

    pH up - 20 mule team borax (TA comes up to)
    pH down - Muriatic acid
    TA up - Baking soda (pH doesn't come up much)
    TA down - aeration and acid...it's process found in Pool School that you must read to make TA change quickly and permanently.

    It sounds like your guy has them a little mixed up.
    Dave S.
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    That is a little counter productive. Do you do your own testing? Can you post a full set of numbers?
    on 12/12 FC 6.6 pH >8 alk 110, I put in 7 c acid
    on 12/14 FC 5.0 pH 7.7 alk 90, I put in 5 c acid
    on 12/17 FC 4.5 pH 7.7 alk 80, I put in 7 c acid
    on 12/19 FC 4.5 pH 7.7 alk 70, I put in baking soda (forgot to document amount)
    on 12/20 FC 4.0 pH >8 alk 110, I put in 2.5 c acid
    on 12/24 FC 3.5 pH 7.9 alk 100, pool guy put in 4 c acid
    on 12/26 FC 4.0 pH 7.4 alk 90, nothing put in
    on 12/29 FC 3.5 pH >8 alk 80, I put in 4.5 c acid

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    You don't report your TA level...that plays in to your pH rise also.

    Did you know that your bubblers and fountain will increase your pH from the aeration they produce.
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    On 12/19, you added baking soda because the TA was 70? Why?

    I would consider a TA around 60 ideal. Raising the TA is only going to make your pH rise faster and higher due to carbon dioxide outgassing. With a TA of 60 and a pH of 7.6-7.8, your acid additions will be much further apart. Unless you are using an acidic form of chlorine (tricolor) or have very low TA fill water, there is no need to ever add baking soda.

    Also your FC level is more than likely below the minimum threshold for your CYA level.
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    i thought TA should be 80-120.

    - - - Updated - - -

    currently water features aren't on

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    80-120 is a guideline. I'd leave the TA alone and see where it settles in
    -Brian-
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    The 80 to 120 rule is based on incorrect information. It is not a useful guideline to follow. I would suggest that you base the TA on how the ph moves. If the ph rises, the TA is probably too high. If the ph drops, the TA is probably too low. When the ph remains stable, the TA is just right.

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    At a TA of 50, my war with pH was over. I never have to adjust water balance for any reason, other than heavy rains. However, we have to acknowledge that your pool is Pebble and that may require a bit more juggling, while you monitor the CSI.

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    The 80 to 120 rule is based on incorrect information. It is not a useful guideline to follow. I would suggest that you base the TA on how the ph moves. If the ph rises, the TA is probably too high. If the ph drops, the TA is probably too low. When the ph remains stable, the TA is just right.
    Is the 80-120 TA rule on this site? If it is, and if it is not valid, I would like to suggest that that reference be revised. It's difficult enough to understand pool chemistry as it is.

    Just my $0.02

    Just saw in "The ABC's of pool chemistry" TA recommended level (60-120).
    Last edited by WASP; 12-31-2015 at 09:24 AM. Reason: reference
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    It was changed a couple months back for that very reason, but I think there are still some areas that say 80-120.

    My understanding was the higher range was more intended for those that use trichlor to prevent the pH from crashing; odd since pucks are so heavily discouraged. At any rate, a TA of 60 will significantly help with acid additions regardless of the method of chlorination.

    If trichlor is used, one must monitor the pH and TA to make sure that they don't get too low. With LC and SWGs the natural tendancy is for the pH and TA to rise anyway so its not much of an issue(even with a TA as low as 50).
    -Brian-
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    Pool School - Recommended Levels

    The recommended levels are shown here.

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    Marcion333,

    Your pool and plaster are new, so you will likely have fast rising pH for a quite a long time to come (12 months or more). You're going to need to find a pH and TA that works best for your pool as a new pool surface tends to behave a little differently from an older, seasoned pool. TFP Recommended levels are a good starting point but it will require a little experimentation on your part to find out what works.

    You can not mix what we teach here with pool store or pool service advice. The two are incompatible with TFP and you are just going to get all turned around trying to figure out why TFP says one thing but the pool service guy is doing another. I know you're concerned about taking over pool care on your own as it seems like a daunting task especially if you've never had to deal with a pool previously. But, if you get the recommended test kit and you follow what we teach here, I can assure you that you will not need a pool service (and save that money being spent). The choice is yours and I wish you the best of luck with your new pool.

    Regards,

    Matt
    Last edited by JoyfulNoise; 12-31-2015 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Information was wrong
    Matt
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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Pool School - Recommended Levels

    The recommended levels are shown here.
    the recommended TA level at this site using bleach with plaster is minimum of 70.
    what is the recommended TA level using trichlor with plaster?

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    I find that using the ph as a guide works better than a predetermined TA target. I would suggest that the ph be kept at 7.8 and the TA adjusted as needed to keep the ph there.

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    today 12/31 FC is 3.5, pH is >8, and TA is 80. i put 2.5 cups acid in (chart says this will lower pH to 7.7).
    i like the idea of using Ph as a guide. i will let TA fall below 80 and see what pH does.

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    PoolMath says, "To lower TA you reduce pH to 7.0-7.2 with acid and then aerate to increase pH."
    does this mean i should put more than 2.5 cups acid into pool?

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    Re: can muriatic acid and baking soda be added to pool at the same time?

    i went ahead and put an additional 5 cups acid into pool today for a total 7.5 cups. we'll see what pH and TA are tomorrow.

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