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Thread: Use of the "Pool Frog"

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    Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Hello,
    Does anyone that has an AGP use the Pool Frog mineral system? I am getting some mixed reviews of them...is it a "waste" or even cause problems down the line? I got some good info in my post over in the "newbie" section, but just wanted to see if anyone else has had any experience with it. Thanks

    Curt
    24' AGP (13,600 gal)
    Sand Filter with 1.5hp pump
    Lancaster, PA

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    What I tend to hear is that people finally realized that they haven't replaced the mineral cartridge in way way too long and never noticed any difference when it ran out. The other common comment is that the chlorine Bac Pac is way too expensive, so they stopped using them right away. Reports of problems are rare. I have never heard from anyone who said that it actually helped.

    Personally, I think that if you are going to use a mineral system, which I don't recommend, you have to be able to test the level and adjust the delivery rate so the level stays in the effective range. Otherwise you are just wasting your time. The Pool Frog doesn't make any provision for testing the level or adjusting the rate of delivery.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    MikeInTN's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Not to mention that the bacpac contains stabilized chlorine, which contributes to high CYA levels.

    I had one that came with the pool (actually mine was called AquaSmarte, or something like that), and stopped using it when I discovered the joys of BBB. I didn't leave mine installed but some do so they can drop a few chlorine tabs in for when they go on vacation.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    One of our Mods, frustratedpoolmom, got suckered into using the frog. Perhaps she can tell you about it.
    Already did.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    One of our Mods, frustratedpoolmom, got suckered into using the frog. Perhaps she can tell you about it.
    Already did.

    I had the N2 which is the equivalent of the pool frog...after hearing and seeing Poolmoms frustration with it...I chucked...if you are doing BBB and testing regularly...you don't need the added expense...It came as part of the pool package...it still sit in my garage if anyone wants to buy it. I'll sell it to ya cheep...Free...you'll spend plenty fixing your pool balance later on.
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Good...keep the awsome info coming!!!I am learning a lot of stuff that you don't hear at the "pool store"...wonder why$$$$$$...so, what is the purpose then of the minerals in the water if it really is not needed?? or is it just something extra that they make money off of!!...(I am really not as dumb as it appears!!!) ..just need good pool learning!!!
    Thanks again!!

    Curt
    24' AGP (13,600 gal)
    Sand Filter with 1.5hp pump
    Lancaster, PA

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by chdolfnz
    or is it just something extra that they make money off of!!

    Curt
    You learn fast! I will say that these products do work (to some extent) to kill pathogens, they are just not the best choice if you want sanitized water under all conditions (read the APVMA bulletins that I posted the links to for an explanation of kill times). However, the main thrust of these products is that 'chlorine is bad and you need to avoid it'. Chlorine is actually the BEST pool sanitizer we have to date with the fewest side effects.

    One of the big problems I have with 'mineral systems' and 'ionizers' is that they make the claims that you can avoid chemicals in your water by using them or reduce the amount of chemicals. However, they don't really explain that they are just putting different chemicals in your water that are really just as toxic, if not more so. If these pool sanitizer chemicals were not 'toxic' to some extent they would not be sanitizers, would they?

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    The minerals are like algaecide, they help prevent algae growth. People do report benefits in Spa situations, but they are impractical in pools.

    One of the main things that bugged me about them is King Tech, recommends a free chlorine residual of .5 or 1 FC. That is simply not safe nor effective in a swimming pool, especially one with young children...when that FC level could easily be consumed rapidly. And despite their claims that the mineral suppress algae, organic staining that they didn't prevent and metal staining from the copper ions the cart produced are exactly what I ended up with. Once I switched to BBB, it took several months of higher than normal FC for the organic stains to fade. They are gone now and I don't expect them to return since I now understand what prevents them in the first place: appropriate FC levels for my CYA.

    I ended up with an overstabilized pool, or "too high CYA". The pool store employees told me it was o.k. and normal for my pool to only have a reading of .5 FC. They said "that was fine, because you have a Frog." Well, guess what, not fine and after literally spending hundreds if not thousands being pool stored, I know better now and won't be pool stored again. Anyone who asks me about mineral/ionizers systems won't get a good recommendation, mainly because I went thru the ringer because of it.

    If I could afford an SWG, simply for convenience factors, it's the way I would go. But honestly, it averages out to less than 5 minutes a day with BBB, and I spend A LOT less money than my old "system" AND I have a lot less problems, headaches and frustration than I did with an "automated" system.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    The minerals are like algaecide, they help prevent algae growth.
    They ARE algaecides (both copper sulfate and silver nitrate solutions are sold as liquid algaecides in the US) so people think if their pool does not turn green and stays clear it's sanitized. However, that is not the case. A pool could look sparkling clear and be teeming with pathogens. Interestinly enough, Nature2 is registered as an algaecide and not a pool sanitizer in Canada (the same country that does not register biguanide systems, What do they know that we don't in the US?)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    There I go again....to many times I use "like" and "you know"....holdovers from my days of youth, when we all used "valley speak". Like, Oh My Gawd!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    I have to chime in here on behalf of the Aqua Smarte system. I am a new pool owner as of last year and got the Aqua Smarte system with the pool package. I hooked up the Aqua Smarte system installed the bac pac, made some initial adjustments to the feeder and have not had any problems. All levels are perfect and stay right consistent. I do have a 2hp pump with a 24' AGP so it does turn the water fairly quickly...that may be a big help. Anyways, I was considering going BBB, but do be honest I have had tremendous luck with this auto chlorinator. I don't think I will replace the mineral cartridge this year...I will see how it does. I have had the pool open for 4 weeks now and it is crystal clear and perfect levels. Hope this helps.
    Coming Soon: In-Ground
    Previous: 24' Round AGP, 2HP Pump, Sand Filter, Solar Cover

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    ddpool, I wish you better luck with the AquaSmarte than what I had. Third year in, I opened to a green cloudy pool.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    There I go again....to many times I use "like" and "you know"....holdovers from my days of youth, when we all used "valley speak". Like, Oh My Gawd!
    like I mean I know exactly what you mean, ohmygod!

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by ddpool
    I have to chime in here on behalf of the Aqua Smarte system. I am a new pool owner as of last year and got the Aqua Smarte system with the pool package. I hooked up the Aqua Smarte system installed the bac pac, made some initial adjustments to the feeder and have not had any problems. All levels are perfect and stay right consistent. I do have a 2hp pump with a 24' AGP so it does turn the water fairly quickly...that may be a big help. Anyways, I was considering going BBB, but do be honest I have had tremendous luck with this auto chlorinator. I don't think I will replace the mineral cartridge this year...I will see how it does. I have had the pool open for 4 weeks now and it is crystal clear and perfect levels. Hope this helps.
    Post the 'perfect levels' please! Perfect levels tell us nothing. Test result numbers do. Like you said, you are a new pool owner. Some of us on here are actually in the industry with many years experience.
    I did notice that in all your posts you never once posted test resuls. Clear water does not always mean problem free water. I suggest you read the links I posted above for the APVMA and see what they have to say about copper, silver, and zinc and killing pathogens.

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Ok...The pool frog is definately OUT!!! Thanks to all of you..my eyes were opened!! I now will try to figure out how to run the pool my way!! (with your help, of course! LOL)..I am hearing a lot about the SWG...how exactly do they work? are they expensive? and practical for a AGP...are they hard to install?..Never really heard about them until I got on this forum. Wonder why my pool store never mentioned them when I bought my pool? Thanks for all info...I am passing this forum on to a friend of mine who had problems last summer with his pool. (He was using the Nature 2 system...imagine that!!!) I told him all about the great people here and your willingness to help us pool newbies!!! Thanks again!!

    Curt
    24' AGP (13,600 gal)
    Sand Filter with 1.5hp pump
    Lancaster, PA

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    I think you made the right decision, from a financial standpoint alone, aside from all the other related issues to "alternative" systems, they aren't worth the expense for any "benefits" one might see, and the same benefits (no algae) can be achieved by properly maintaining the pool water chemistry.

    Here is an article on SWGs for you to peruse. Good luck!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by chdolfnz
    Good...keep the awsome info coming!!!I am learning a lot of stuff that you don't hear at the "pool store"...wonder why$$$$$$...so, what is the purpose then of the minerals in the water if it really is not needed?? or is it just something extra that they make money off of!!...(I am really not as dumb as it appears!!!) ..just need good pool learning!!!
    Thanks again!!

    Curt
    I got mine for free and to start this season I would have had to spend $90 just for the new cartridge...ya know what I spent so far opening my pool...$12 dollars...that was $5 for two jugs of bleach and $5 more for borax and baking soda...and then two dollars for teflon tape...Oh wait I also spend 10 dollars on a new gate valve for the front of my filter pump so I can shut off water flow in order clean pump basket...so that is $22 to open my pool...Anyone else pay less then that? Ann? Poolstore guy gets angry I blow in by a 10 dollar part and then leave...No chemicals no nothing.
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Quote Originally Posted by cubbybeave08
    I got mine for free and to start this season I would have had to spend $90 just for the new cartridge...ya know what I spent so far opening my pool...$12 dollars...that was $5 for two jugs of bleach and $5 more for borax and baking soda...and then two dollars for teflon tape...Oh wait I also spend 10 dollars on a new gate valve for the front of my filter pump so I can shut off water flow in order clean pump basket...so that is $22 to open my pool...Anyone else pay less then that? Ann? Poolstore guy gets angry I blow in by a 10 dollar part and then leave...No chemicals no nothing.
    Today....this is good.

    I haven't set foot in this pool stealer by my house in 2 years. Last time I was there I left literally in tears, from frustration, because of the stupid Frog and minerals and copper in my pool, after they had convinced me I needed $60 in sequesterant to get rid of the copper I HAD PUT IN the pool.

    Anyway...I decided to stop in to see if they had the floor pad for the ladder, and to check their liquid chlorine prices. I asked the sales guy wandering the aisle, how much? He says, "$2.99." Is that a case price? I ask. "No...if you're interested we have some powdered shock?" "No, thanks I don't want powdered shock." I guess it was the way I said it that caused him to look at me funny...
    $2.99... Perfect I thought, great deal. So I grab a couple, and the pad and I get in line. I'm third in line...

    First guy.... large bucket of tabs, 6 bags of "shockit", bottle of algaecide, bottle of clarifier, new cheapy solar cover, 18' round, label says $29.99. Checkout gal tells the man "That'll be $178.50."

    Next guy.....large bucket of tabs, more like 12 bags of shockit, bottle of algaecide, clarifier, 2 speed pump for $219.... I was distracted by the man THANKING THE SALESPERSON FOR "ALL THEIR HELP" when the cashier told the wife the total which was somewhere around $357 I think she said...

    My turn at the counter, now I'm trying very hard not to smile from ear to ear. I plop down my 2 jugs and my floorpad. "That's all for you today?" (meaning, "don't you want some useless overpriced chems?") "That's it, thanks." "Okay, that's $10.46."

    As I walk out the door, I hold it open for a gentleman carrying in, you guessed it.... a used Frog cartridge... I couldn't help but feel sorry for him ....all the while my big fat grin is plastered on my face.

    I've decided us Mods need business cards with the TFP info on them to pass out to these poor souls on our rare trips to the pool stealer.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Ann,
    I just wait in the parking lot for the poor unsuspecting saps...Then I tell them, you realize it is their job to get you to spend money in there right? They look at me with a blank look...I tell them...I was in their for a new...{insert piece of pool equipment such as skimmer weir} and I don't buy all that stuff...What do you use...Bleach, I tell them...You can't do that it'll wreck your liner...Then I tell them you want to know how to do it...Go to trouble free pools dot com and tell them to join the forum...They will tell you everything you need to know. I am in no way an expert...but I am expert enough to know not to go to the pool store and ask what do I need!
    frustratedpoolmom wrote...
    As I walk out the door, I hold it open for a gentleman carrying in, you guessed it.... a used Frog cartridge... I couldn't help but feel sorry for him ....all the while my big fat grin is plastered on my face.

    I think it is actually the big grin as I leave that makes me feel best
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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    Re: Use of the "Pool Frog"

    Poolmom...that is a funny story!!! I know all to well..that was me last summer. We got our pool installed last summer and part of the "package" was a season of chemicals. The pool store convinced me to go with Baquacil...I didn't really know too much and had the impression that chlorine was "bad"...ie..eat the liner...turn bathing suits to faded, tie die colors...turn blonde hair green...you know the drill!! Well, I found out that the "season" worth of Baqua didnt last too long....I needed Algicide (not included)..needed ph up and down (not included)..kept taking water to be tested and walked out with an empty wallet..that stuff is expensive! Then I got the pool mold problem...more expensive chemicals to get rid of it!! Don't get me wrong...they were very nice and they did a great job installing the pool..but I guess they are like any other business..make $$$ and selling chemicals will do that. They are coming the week of May 4 to open the pool and get it going..then I am going to switch to chlorine..very nervous about that!!!
    Hopefully it will work good and I can learn to run the pool the right way. As it seems from all of you..it doesn't need to drain you wallet to have a clean, safe pool.! Thanks for listening and I will keep you posted as I progress!!

    Curt
    24' AGP (13,600 gal)
    Sand Filter with 1.5hp pump
    Lancaster, PA

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