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Thread: Recommended heater

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    Recommended heater

    I've seen/heard several dissenting opinions on pool heaters. Right now I have an ancient Purex Triton 350M (millivolt version) that I want to replace at the same time as the pump, and possibly at a SWG and an automation system. One pool company came out and recommended a Rheem 333k btu cupronickel heater, as they said they are dead reliable. However, I've barely been able to find any info on Rheem pool heaters other than that they are similar to Raypack heaters. I have not been able to find any pricing whatsoever on Rheem heaters.

    A different pool guy came out to give a second opinion and he really seemed to dislike Rheem/Raypack and said they are unreliable and inefficient. He recommended a Hayward H-series or Pentair master temp. I've read very mixed reviews about the H-series and I don't want the Master Temp because it comes in either 300 or 400k BTU, and I want to stick with 333-350k BTU (to avoid having to pay to get the gas line changed). Both people seemed to like the Sta-rite Max-E therm, but it didn't seem to be the "heater of choice" for either.

    With most brands it's easier to tell the difference in quality due to variations in price. It doesn't seem like pool equipment manufacturers work the same way, as everything is similarly price. My goal is to find the best quality and most reliable equipment.

    I know my post is a bit long winded. In summation:

    1. Does anyone know any further details about Rheem heaters, and anyone's personal experiences?
    2. Hayward H-series vs Rheem vs Sta-rite

    Thanks!

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    banditig's Avatar
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    Re: Recommended heater

    Rheem and Raypak are the exact same.
    http://www.rheem.com/products/pool_spa/
    I like mine. Have had no problems in 3 years. Just spider nests in burners over winter shut downs.
    15x54 swim & play vinyl metal wall AG
    Hayward S210T sand filter 1.5 HP Pentair Superflo vs
    Rheem raypak 130,000 BTU mv ng
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Recommended heater

    Wish I could help but I'm a Pentair guy. I love my MasterTemp and it's been rock solid for years.

    If you are considering a full package of upgrades, then you might want to check with all the big equipment companies because they usually offer more generous warranty terms if you have a professional installer do a bundled deal.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Recommended heater

    As mentioned above, Rheem and Raypak are one in the same. The master temps and Raypaks are great heaters. Either one would serve you well.

    The cupro-nickel versions are not needed barring you stay on top of your water chemistry. That will save you a good amount of money.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Recommended heater

    I sell and install hundreds of the Raypak/Rheem units each year and very seldom get calls from my customers about them having issues. No need to pay for the cupro nickel exchanger as it's really overkill on a residential pool.

    I repair so many of the other brands on a regular basis. I can tell you that they older Hayward's were great solid units but the new FD units aren't as good and have numerous issues. You also want to consider your cost of ownership as all of these other units, Haywards, MasterTemp, StaRite(same as the mastertemp), all have extra parts in them and when they go out and need to be replaced aren't cheap. But the Rheem unit is a very straight forward unit and does not have a blower motor or extra boards/parts. Something to consider when you purchase.

    As for the BTU's and gas pipe sizing, you might be able to go with the 400K unit in the Rheem as they are very forgiving in this areas. Also another plus for Rheem.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Recommended heater

    No need to try and sell you on it...

    Just get the Raypak.
    Factory Warranty Station for:
    Jandy/Zodiac, Pentair, Sta-Rite, Raypak, Polaris,
    and Paramount pool cleaning systems.

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Thank you for the informative responses, I'm certainly leaning toward Rheem/Raypack the more that I hear. We don't mind paying extra for a heavier-duty pool heater if it means fewer issues down the road.

    What are your thoughts on getting a commercial ASME-certified version of the same heater? We plan on using the pool frequently for ourselves and for parties, and the heater will be used frequently to keep the pool above a minimum temperature from March-October, and for the spa several times a week. Of course I will do my best to keep the chemicals maintained but we want to be prepared if we end up renting the house out down the road.

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    Re: Recommended heater

    I recommend the Raypak also. I would go as large as a heater as you can get since they heat the pool faster when needed. I have the 400k btu version and believe to have the standard gas meter on the house.
    Inground 22k gallon gunite 15x31 main pool, 15x7 wading pool/sunning deck, hot tub/with overflow (9' octagon with limestone top) & slide NSWG, Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen
    Filter dual cartridge Sta-rite 450sq/ft, TF-100 Test Kit
    Heater Raypak 2100 400k btu cupro-nickel exchanger
    Auto pool cover, Polaris 280 auto pool cleaner, Jandy AqualinkRS8 Remote Control System

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrharrison View Post
    Thank you for the informative responses, I'm certainly leaning toward Rheem/Raypack the more that I hear. We don't mind paying extra for a heavier-duty pool heater if it means fewer issues down the road.

    What are your thoughts on getting a commercial ASME-certified version of the same heater? We plan on using the pool frequently for ourselves and for parties, and the heater will be used frequently to keep the pool above a minimum temperature from March-October, and for the spa several times a week. Of course I will do my best to keep the chemicals maintained but we want to be prepared if we end up renting the house out down the road.
    There is really no need to go overboard on the unit. ASME is only needed in commercial setting as well as the cupro nickle heat exchanger. Don't over think this. If you decide to rent the house out down the road, hire a pool service to maintain the pool. I make sure to spell it out to them that if the heater is ruined during their time, they pay.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Recommended heater

    I have a Raypak 406 and the energy guide said it is inefficient. However, after hearing everyone say that most heaters cost about $5-6 per hour to run, I did my own test. Just last night, I measured my meter with my heater running and found that I burn 360cfh or 6cfm. My gas company charges $.60 per 100cf. So I am only paying $2.16 per hour of my heater running. Also, my hottub, which is approx 1500 gallons heats at a rate of 1 degree every 2 minutes.

    Hope these fun facts help in your decision. I love my "inefficient" raypak
    Shotcrete 21x11 pool with raised 11x5.5 hot tub, 7' spill over. 1"x1" lunata bay mosaic tile and travertine coping. (Not sure of plaster yet) 1hp whisperflo pump for returns and water feature. 3hp whisperflo for 6 waterway jets in hottub. 3 jandy nichless lights. Hayward T-9, PS4, TA60 sand filter. Broke ground Aug 5, 2015 Aiming to be done Sep 10, 2015

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Thanks again for the responses. If anyone is interested, I decided to pull the trigger on a Rheem heater. I actually contacted Rheem because I was unclear on the BTU rating of their cupronickel heaters. The company that is selling and installing the equipment assured me it has the same rating as the non-CN version, but from what I have learned that's not true. The 336 CN has a rating of 300,000 BTU (instead of 332,500 for copper). However, the ASME version w/ CN has the same 332,500 rating. It's pretty convoluted and I'm really not sure why they do it that way, but my last decision is whether to go with the ASME 336 or the non-ASME 406 It depends on what my gas line can handle.

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Why would you want the ASME? If this is a residential setting, the non ASME is more than enough for your needs.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Quote Originally Posted by ps0303 View Post
    Why would you want the ASME? If this is a residential setting, the non ASME is more than enough for your needs.
    Exactly. But, one of my bigger concerns is the size of the pool heater. I didn't want to downsize much from the existing one, but I also don't want to have to pay to have the gas company to come out and change the gas lines.

    I'm ok with a 333k BTU heater, but I don't want to go as low as 300k. I'm also pretty dead set on having a Rheem heater with a cupronickel exchanger. The Rheem cupronickel heater comes in 300k or 360k btu, but the ASME cupronickel version comes in 332,500 and 399,000 BTU. I'm having a gas guy coming today to check the line to see if I can either do a 360k BTU heater, or if I have to check the price on the ASME version.

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Preface: I feel like an idiot for this, I could have saved myself a lot of time by simply calling my gas company. However, I did discover a leak that I would not have otherwise found!

    So the other day I had the pool guy look at my meter to see what it could handle as far as max BTU, and he saw I have a 425 meter and said I needed to get a pool heater no larger than 300k btu. I couldn't believe that the max to my house was 425k, so I decided to check it out myself. Last night I went out to the meter, but smelled a lot of gas! I called the gas emergency number and they sent a guy out within an hour. He confirmed that I have a 425 meter with 2 PSI pressure, but I had no idea what 2 PSI pressure meant in the NG world. He told me the gas company has a dedicated number to call if you plan on adding any NG appliances, and they will tell you if your meter can handle it or not. Boy, did I feel stupid! They informed me that my current meter can handle over 1,000,000 btu/h. My current max demand w/o the pool heater is 175k BTU (100k btu furnace, 75k btu range, electric water heater).

    So the only thing that needs to be changed is the regulator valve at the equipment pad, it's too small even for the existing heater.

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    Recommended heater

    2psi is pretty common for NG. Residential NG is purposely at low pressure because the last thing you want to do is store mechanical energy (pressure X volume) with all that chemical energy !!

    2psi is ~ 55.4" of water column (WC). Most gas appliances need around 5-7WC to operate with 2 WC as the absolute minimum and 10WC as the max. Your pool heater will have the pressure specs. But based on what you're seeing (1M BTU/HR and 55WC), you should have more than enough supply from your meter.

    How long is your gas line run from the meter to the heater? Usually there's a spec for the minimum run length and pipe diameter?

    My pool heater has 150' of run with 2" gas line. But I'm also running my 65,000 BTU gas grille and fire pit from the same line.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Raypak heaters are very forgiving on gas pressure. I routinely run units in a distance of the gas line that others will not fire on but the Raypak's have no issue.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Recommended heater

    It's no more than 40-50' away from the equipment pad.

    I got a quote from a couple natural gas plumbers- it's going to cost $450(!!) to change the gas regulator . I don't understand why it will cost so much since the part sells for $60 online, and will only take 45 minutes to change out. If it will void the warranty for the heater or cause other issues, I will just have to suck it up. Otherwise, I would love to find an alternative!

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    Re: Recommended heater

    Yeah that long of a run I wouldn't push it. I would get the regulator changed out if it is not of the correct type. I've fought that battle in the past and homeowners don't understand it.

    Yes I hear what you are saying on the cost but if you get the same price from 3 licensed installers in your area, well, then I guess that is the going price.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Recommended heater

    I contacted a plumber today due to a leaking pipe connected to my water heater, and the guy I spoke to also does natural gas. He said he would fix the water heater and change the gas valve for $125 plus parts. I'm still a little skeptical, but he has great reviews. We will soon find out...

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