Acid Dispenser Dilemna

[panamax53]

The electrician could not figure out how to rewire the Steiner to only run off the hi-speed timer. I'm in south Florida and properly trained tradesmen are not easy to find. He said he would be back. But.................

Ive come full circle and now am in the camp of those w a dedicated timer. It will be a whole lot easier, I think, to have him wire in a box. I also noted a significant reduction in noise levels above the #4 setting. Higher dosing in less time.

Would it make any sense to dedicate some part of the site to this topic? Seems I had to jump around Google and numerous texts before the topic coalesced.

 

[bdavis466]

Post a picture of your timer with the lid on and off so the wiring can be seen. This shouldn't be very difficult at all...

 

[panamax53]

 

[panamax53]

He wired the black lead to the far right screw of the high speed timer, a white neutral to the breaker bar and the green to the ground at the bottom. Last night, for the first time I noticed that my heat pump was not running due to "low flow". It always ran on both speeds. Could that be tied into the issue with why the Stenner runs on the 12 hour low speed cycle instead of the 6 hour high speed cycle? Or is that purely coincidental?

 

[bdavis466]

The left timer is high speed and the right is low speed?

It actually looks like the power is being pulled from the low speed cycle to power the connection where the Stenner is connected and that's why its running on low speed. The blue wire on the left, does that go to the pump for high speed? If not, what circuit does that power?

 

[panamax53]

Sorry, the pic is sideways. The bottom timer is the left high speed timer. The blue wire does come from the pump. I don't know what it does. The high speed side can only operate if the low speed side timer is on. That's our code.

 

[bdavis466]

Plug the Stenner black wire to where the blue wire is and try that.

That really is an odd wiring set up...its more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[gary300]

One other note, it looks like you have clear tubing going to your Stenner. You need to change that to the black UV resistant type or you are going to have problems with the tube degrading and possibly rupturing over time due to UV.

 

[panamax53]

Gary, thank you for the warning. I'll try and get that addressed. The clear tubing really doesn't allow me to see the flow either so it wouldn't matter to switch to black. I'll wait till the first maintenance and change out. Since it is outside I also ordered the cover to protect it from UV. I wonder if I ordered a gray UV resistant barrel if I would still be able to see the level of liquid?
Back on point to Brian. I tried switching the wires. Stenner still comes on with Low Speed. It's a moot point as I am firmly committed to installing an outdoor box and using a dedicated timer electro mechanical or digital for it. One would still think you could wire something up to run only when the hi speed side is running, I'm baffled. My brother, a journeyman electrician (not familiar w pool equipment wiring) was puzzled by the setup too. A non English speaking electrician set it up for the pool builder. My brother said he wanted to redo the whole thing, but I am wondering if there might just be some strange unique wiring that's required to make the whole thing work right?
Another twist to this tale. Realizing there are flow issues that affect not only the heater, but the swcg as well, I am beginning to think I would have been better served with a variable speed pump. The pool company set this two speed to run hi speed for 6 hours and low speed for 12 hours. The SWCG manual states it functions from a low of 40gmp to 92 gpm. My rated flow rate is 88gpm at hi speed. The low speed obviously must be less than 40 gpm since it will not allow the swcg to come on. A variable speed would allow me more flexibility for the swcg run time and the heater, I think. Or would that just be complicating my life?

 

[bdavis466]

The panel would be well suited to a rewire. There several redundancies and running a 120v appliance off a 220v circuit is never a good idea. Take a picture of the wiring diagram on the inside of the panel door and post it up.

Are you sure the left timer is high speed?

 

[panamax53]

I'm absolutely certain the left timer is high speed no ifs and or buts. All this would go away if they sold me a variable speed pump except they don't sell those unless you spend another $2,000 on Aqualink. Problem w heater solved. Due to slamming last week I turned on shears. They were still on. Apparently running all three reduced flow rate to less than the minimum required for the heater 20 gpm! Turned em off and the heater again works on low speed. Still to get optimal flow rate, 40gpm, a VS pump is required.

 

[bdavis466]

I can't zoom in on the wiring diagram on the door well enough to comment and I've yet to find Intermatic's manual for your timer. This should be a simple solution to get it to do what you want it to do. There is no need for another additional timer.

The blue wire slot should have been the fix. Where does the other hot wire to the pump connect?

 

[panamax53]

BTW, I clicked on your hyperlink to Pool Build, WOW! Super nice and more impressive since you did it yourself. Well done!

 

[bdavis466]

Thanks!

By chance, have you seen THIS article? It explains the wiring procedures rather well.

Try moving the stenner wire to the far right terminal of the right timer.

 

[Jaimslaw]

Another twist to this tale. Realizing there are flow issues that affect not only the heater, but the swcg as well, I am beginning to think I would have been better served with a variable speed pump. The pool company set this two speed to run hi speed for 6 hours and low speed for 12 hours.

I can't help but think your pool company has not been on top of things. I mean is there even a net benefit of running the 2 speed on hi for that long, and then another 12 hours on low speed? In any event, your plight will have me checking my swg's required flow rate before deciding whether to go VS or dual speed when that time comes. (Am not a real fan of the far more pricey VS pumps, tho I understand the advantage of its adjustability).

 

[gary300]

I am beginning to think I would have been better served with a variable speed pump. The pool company set this two speed to run hi speed for 6 hours and low speed for 12 hours.

I only need to run my 2hp single speed pump for 3 hours a day at this time of year and my pool is crystal clear.

 

[panamax53]

Minimum flow rate is 40gpm for the swcg max is 92. It only produces 0.266 ppm an hour at 100%. It has 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% and 100% settings. Now you can see the parameters that I must work with. six hours will only give me 1.6 ppm. Low speed gives me nothing. Yesterday w no bather load and mild weather running at 80% it held its own and did not change when I tested FC this am. Hope it can maintain FC at 6 in the summer. Read somewhere on this site average loss of FC in summer is 2 - 3 ppm. My first Dec bill came in, it appears the pump,swcg and heat pump are costing me $225 a month plus or minus $20.00! Ouch.

Brian ​Tried right post. It did not resolve it. Still ran on low when hi speed is off. And I thought this would be simple to solve. no worries, problem will go away when I get a dedicated timer. I purchased the same one you have. I too am noticing acid demand settling into 4oz a day or 8oz if we've had 1/2-1 inch of rain thanks to recommendations to drop my TA to 60.

 

[panamax53]

I can't help but think your pool company has not been on top of things. I mean is there even a net benefit of running the 2 speed on hi for that long, and then another 12 hours on low speed? QUOTE]
6 hours on high and another 6 on low. It was 8 on low and I cut it back to 6.

 

[bdavis466]

Still far longer than what is needed. High speed really should only be used to run your cleaner, past that there is little benefit.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I can't help but think your pool company has not been on top of things. I mean is there even a net benefit of running the 2 speed on hi for that long, and then another 12 hours on low speed? In any event, your plight will have me checking my swg's required flow rate before deciding whether to go VS or dual speed when that time comes. (Am not a real fan of the far more pricey VS pumps, tho I understand the advantage of its adjustability).

I think the bigger issue here is one of pool builders that just don't fully understand how newer systems operate and are stuck in the mindset of "this is how we always do it". In the old days, you had a single speed pump and a filter. You had to match the pump output to the filter constraints and pool turnover rates. It was a fairly easy judgment call to make. Adding in extras like heaters just meant needing to provide more horsepower to get the flow you wanted.

Nowadays, there are a lot more options and SWG's provide great flexibility but they have their downsides too. SWG's now impose minimum flow requirements and added pump run time to get a pool to proper chlorination levels. So nowadays, pump considerations get considerably more complex due to the options out there. If one is going to build a salt water chlorine pool, then the minimum flow of the SWG cell MUST be provided for by the lowest potential pump speed of the system (in the case of a 2-speed pump) so that chlorine generation can be provided at any speed. If you setup a 2-speed pump system such that chlorine production can only happen on high speed, then you force the pool owner to use more energy than is necessary. Variable speed pumps help alleviate the burden a little but their upfront cost and sensitive electrical requirements adds to the complexity at the equipment pad which some pool owners really don't want.