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Thread: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

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    Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    I am new to the forum, tired of adding a pint of acid a day. Somehow, using google perhaps, I found an older excellent thread that convinced me that I needed a Pentair Intelliph Acid Dispenser. I might have ordered it too quickly as I was told by a customer service rep of Pentair that it will not work independently but must be wired to a Pentair SWCG. I have a Jandy Aquapure 35e. I thought it would work as a stand alone. Any suggestions? Ordered and on the way w a big restocking fee. ??
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Yes, i wish you had taken the time to investigate a little more. The bigger problem with acid dispensers in my opinion is the pH probes are prone to mis-readings unless cleaned/calibrated regularly. A lot of folks who have rising pH (i'm included in this group) find that by letting the TA drop a little lower than the pool stores want you to keep it will reduce the acid need considerably. I have a 3 foot wide sheer decent waterfall that contributes to my pH rise. I've found that if I keep my TA at around 40 it almost eliminates my pH rise.

    You will find that we teach a more hands on pool care method than pool stores tend to teach so what they say is usually at odds with our methods. How much Pool School have you read? Start with this:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    It does run off the IntelliChlor SWGs and it won't work with your Jandy SWG.

    You would have been better off with a Stenner Acid Pump (which can be run as a standalone unit).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Welcome to TFP!!

    Yes, i wish you had taken the time to investigate a little more. The bigger problem with acid dispensers in my opinion is the pH probes are prone to mis-readings unless cleaned/calibrated regularly. A lot of folks who have rising pH (i'm included in this group) find that by letting the TA drop a little lower than the pool stores want you to keep it will reduce the acid need considerably. I have a 3 foot wide sheer decent waterfall that contributes to my pH rise. I've found that if I keep my TA at around 40 it almost eliminates my pH rise.

    You will find that we teach a more hands on pool care method than pool stores tend to teach so what they say is usually at odds with our methods. How much Pool School have you read? Start with this:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    The IntelliPH does not use pH meters or ORP sensors. It is simply a time/volume based dispenser designed to run in tandem with the SWG. There really isn't anything Intelligent about it, and in my situation it leaves much to be desired.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    The IntelliPH does not use pH meters or ORP sensors. It is simply a time/volume based dispenser designed to run in tandem with the SWG. The really isn't anything Intelligent about it
    See, they confused me with the name.... Your suggestion for a Stenner could be a good one.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Where do I find exactly what to order for a Stenner solution?
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Perhaps THIS would be more of what you need. I'd research it as much as possible prior to purchasing it this time though

    - - - Updated - - -

    I forgot to ask, why a pint of acid a day? Nobody wants to do that!

    I suspect your TA is high or you are trying to maintain a pH that is too low. Maintaining a pH between 7.6-7.8 and a TA near 60 should drastically reduce acid additions.

    If you post some numbers, we can see whats going on.
    -Brian-
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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Thank you all for your responses. Just had shoulder surgery so am a little slow getting back. I had been working hard trying to give my wife the easiest task to handle while I would be temporarily laid up. I am using TFP guidelines for swcg pool, my TA was ranging 75 -90, CYA 70 - 80, FC 4.5 at 60% runtime setting over 6 hrs, salt 4200-4400, and CH 325 . What I observed for pH with daily testing was a 7.7 or 7.8 or higher reading in the a.m. One drop of acid would put it at 7.5 or 7.4. A test in the afternoon confirmed the drop in pH. That computed out to 16 oz of acid daily or a quart every other day. I had the spouse add a pint a day for 5 days while I did nothing. My FC and pH were what I hoped to find after my absence: FC 4.5 and pH of 7.5.


    My wife, bless her heart, overfilled the pool yesterday trying to help out so I had to drain 5 inches last night.

    Today's test results:
    FC 2.5 CC 0.5, pH 7.5 -7.6, CYA 65, TA 60, NaCL 4200, CH 300
    Bdavis466 suggested TA 60, so now I'm there. Wife noted 1st brownish spot on pool wall near floor yesterday that will not brush off. She also thought some slight greenish color was showing up( I was not sure if it was an optical illusion). To be safe, I did my first shock w 5 gals of 10% Chlorine to raise to 30ppm. Will let that sit for a day till I tweak cya up 5 ppm. What else could that spot be?

    Will shoot for 60 TA as suggested and see what happens. Its difficult to read pH at higher end. Would like to find something that measures it precisely and takes guess work out of it. I'm a little nervous about getting the pH too high, or maintaining it in the high region in order to avoid any issues that might come with a high pH.

    To reduce the work a Stenner pump solution is coming. Found a pool company that will order it since I cant order direct. I think the 15 gal gray UV protected tank should work out. They'll do the whole install for around $500.
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    I would suggest you have the motor unit mounted away from the tank. The biggest issue I see with these acid pumps is that the acid vapors are very corrosive and destroy the pumps over time. I believe even the IntelliPH manual states that the pumps are considered a consumable item that needs to be replaced every 12-18 months (~$50 for the pump).

    If I were installing it I would also consider adding a tee to the input so I could flush the line with water so as to not have concentrated acid sitting the peristaltic pump line. But I'm not sure I've ever seen that done by anyone.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    The combo Stenner set up (tank + pump) is really a nice configuration. Doing a quick "Stenner pump" search on this forum will bring you to several threads within the last year with pictures and very helpful recommendations.

    Annual maintenance is typically ckecking a small tube section in the pump itself and replacing it if necessary (or doing so as a matter of course, which is what I will do). It's a simple inexpensive switch out of that tube and plenty of youtube tutorials available. Stenner has an exceptional reputation as a chemical (caustic included) pump dispensing manufacturer.

    These prior posts will guide you on the various methods to handle the timing of the dispensing of the acid as well. No need for anything expensive or sophisticated, i.e., I would stay away from investing in any auto sensing/dispensing equipment as this will introduce more variables that can go wrong.

    Given my ph creep situation, installing this pump was by far the best improvement I have made to my pool. My SWG automates my chlorine and now my Stenner pump automatics my acid feed/ph control. Combined with the recommended lowering of one's TA, my Stenner 15 gal. Tank capacity will last me six months (estimated as I installed it a couple months ago).
    Pool: 13k gal. in-ground; Stonescape Mini Pebble - Tropics Blue; Connected Spa - dual spill-over; Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG; AquaLogic PS-4 Automation; Sta-Rite DE Filter; Sta-Rite Max-e-Therm 400k BTU pool heater; Intellifo 2-VST Pump; Stenner 45mp2(25psi/10gpd) acid injection; Bulbwizard color LED pool lights; Poolvergnuegen 2 wheel side suction cleaner; FAFCO rooftop solar. TF-100 w/ speed stir.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Jaimslaw,
    Are you diluting your acid? They have a 45M2 for me. They dont carry the 45M1 with the #1 hose. They will have to order it. With the #2 hose I have little flexibility. I can only use the #1 setting or the "L" setting on the dial. I could dilute further than a 50/50 solution, but then my goal of not having to fool with this often is not met. At a 50/50 solution I will in theory get 56 32oz doses, but in practice about 40 - 45 days worth. Getting double that with a non diluted tank is attractive, but maybe too risky? A Larger tank would be better, but I only have space for a 15 gal tank which will only be filled to the 14 gallon level. I did my own tank markings today measuring each gal of water on the outside. I realized ea. gallon of acid is between 12 and 14 ounces short of a true gallon. I'll have to add between 84 and 98 additional ounces to the 7 store "gallons" to get a true 7 gallons into the tank. I have a 2 speed pump. The high speed timer is set for 6 hours and the low at 12 hours. I'll need to have them wire the pump to operate off the high speed timer to reduce the run time. Maybe I should have gotten a different model that doses out in smaller increments, but everyone say this one is the best so that's what I'm going with. If and when my acid demand goes down I will be happy to see the tank last longer.
    Max
    Last edited by panamax53; 01-07-2016 at 03:56 PM. Reason: spelling error
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Slamming completed. First one. Chlorine loss one ppm from 22 to 21 OCLT. CC 0.5 and pool is clear as it can be. Since we heat the pool to 89 degrees, keeping the higher FC levels suggested from the CYA Chlorine matrix make sense.

    Bumped my CYA up to between 70 - 75, pH today was 7.8. Turned off SWCG. I wonder how long the Chlorine will take to get down to the 5 - 6 level as suggested by the CYA chart. I'll check daily.

    Pool store sold me an algaecide called Problem Klear, a 40% sodium bromide 60% inert ingredient sold under the SeaKlear brand. Initial dose was 11 oz, maintenance is recommended by store owner to be 4 oz weekly here in S Florida. The label says 5 oz biweekly. Works out to $10 a mo. for algaecide.
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    You DO NOT want to put bromide based algaecides in a chlorine pool. The bromide will be oxidized to bromine by the chlorine, in essence, creating an excess FC demand. The problem is, you won't notice it because both bromine and chlorine show up on the FC test.

    Return it or throw it away but DO NOT ADD IT TO YOUR POOL.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Following our methods there is no maintenance chemicals like algecides, flocs or clarifiers. As Matt said, you especially don't want to mix bromide products with a chlorine pool. The pool store guy wants to sell something, anything.

    You can't mix pool store advice with ours, it doesn't work out well.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Got it. One more question to the panel. I know I need the Stenner 45M1 w a #1 tube (smaller), but do I get the 0 -25 or the 25 - 100psi HP model? The injection point will be on the return line before the SWCG. What is the appropriate use of the non HP vs the HP model?

    Pool Chemistry Update: Thanks to Bdavis466's suggestion to drop TA to 60 my pH climb has started to slow down. for the first time today I did not have to add acid. It was 7.5 and not 7.8 or higher. Finally!
    Thanks
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    I was so pleased with everything here I decided to make the $30.00 donation to support the site and feel it was a good investment.
    A worthy cause.
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    The HP version is for applications where the higher pressure is needed to overcome the plumbing pressure. Are your filter pressures frequently in excess of 25psi? If not then then the standard model should be fine for you.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Quote Originally Posted by panamax53 View Post
    Jaimslaw,
    Are you diluting your acid?
    No, I am at 100%. the 50-50 dilution should last you quite a while now that you've dialed back the TA and slowed down your SWG ph creep.

    I too too found the acid injection so beneficial for me and my ph creep issue, and of course the tips from this forum regarding same, that I made the $ pledge.

    For years, I sufferred an up and down ph situation due to an almost perennial "hair on fire" existence during the work week. Could only get to my pool chores on weekends which wreaked havoc on ph stability. The acid injection was a god send for me. It's now rock steady. When I need an adjustment, it's typically just raising or lowering my timer by a minute.

    All is good now. Sounds like you have gotten into a good place with your new set up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaimslaw View Post
    It's now [correction] rock steady.
    correcting last post.
    Pool: 13k gal. in-ground; Stonescape Mini Pebble - Tropics Blue; Connected Spa - dual spill-over; Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG; AquaLogic PS-4 Automation; Sta-Rite DE Filter; Sta-Rite Max-e-Therm 400k BTU pool heater; Intellifo 2-VST Pump; Stenner 45mp2(25psi/10gpd) acid injection; Bulbwizard color LED pool lights; Poolvergnuegen 2 wheel side suction cleaner; FAFCO rooftop solar. TF-100 w/ speed stir.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Thanks for allaying my fears bdavis466, my psi at the filter is 10 when clean and the pump is running at hi-speed. What scenarios would require higher pressure typically? Long distances?

    Stenner installed today. I am happy except for fact they did not wire it to the hi speed side, just the low speed timer side! Ugh!!!!

    What in God's name is that loud clicking noise the Stenner pump makes? Can I do anything about it?
    17.5K gal,31'x15' IG plaster, Depth 4'-6', Built 2015, Pump: Jandy Pro Series Model FHPM 2.HP -2-Spd, 88gpm Turnover 3.3 Hrs; Heater: Jandy JE Heat Pump Model 2500T SWCG: Jandy AquaPure Ei Series Mod. Apure35 Max Output Hypochlorous Acid = 420 g of FC per day = 0.2666 ppm per hour; Filter: Jandy Pro Series Model CS 200; Cleaner: Jandy MX8, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 Salt; Stenner 45M1; City Water:Doral, FL.

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Switching to the high speed side shouldn't be very difficult if that's where you want it to be.

    Acid injection is a lot more common on commercial pools, typically with large pumps and higher pressures.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Acid Dispenser Dilemna

    Quote Originally Posted by panamax53 View Post
    What in God's name is that loud clicking noise the Stenner pump makes? Can I do anything about it?
    From what I read when I was doing research last year on these Stenner pumps, that clicking is the sound a variable speed pump makes, which was one of the reasons I went with the fixed rate..though I was even a little surprised at the hum level noise their fixed rate pump makes. However, it is only on for a few minutes and is mostly drowned out by the pool pump noise so a complete non issue, noise wise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And no, there isn't anything that can be done about it
    Pool: 13k gal. in-ground; Stonescape Mini Pebble - Tropics Blue; Connected Spa - dual spill-over; Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG; AquaLogic PS-4 Automation; Sta-Rite DE Filter; Sta-Rite Max-e-Therm 400k BTU pool heater; Intellifo 2-VST Pump; Stenner 45mp2(25psi/10gpd) acid injection; Bulbwizard color LED pool lights; Poolvergnuegen 2 wheel side suction cleaner; FAFCO rooftop solar. TF-100 w/ speed stir.

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