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Thread: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    My engineer has specified Jandy valves for all the major stuff in my plumbing plans (as I had requested) but he has ball valves for my bubblers and slide. In those applications, are the ball valves sufficient? Would I regret not getting the Jandy there too even with the cost increase?
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Generally you want the Jandy vales because they last longer, are more adjustable and can be run by your automation system. If you want to control these with automation you need Jandy valves.

    Pool engineers in California generally don't deal with the plumbing only with the structural so I question his expertise in this area. What automation are you getting.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Thanks. I am getting an EasyTouch 8 which is overkill for what I need, but was the only way to get the IC60 built in and worked out pretty comparably cost wise to piecing it all together. I never thought about not being able to automate the bubblers. That's an easy call. Not sure if I'd need to automate the slide, but it might be worth doing it right for longevity and better control.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    On the EasyTouch 8 (I have one) you're only going to have four (4) valve controls. Two them are already set for suction side and return side selection to operate the POOL and SPA mode function. The other two are labeled VALVE A and VALVE B in the system layout. So, in effect, that means you only have two extra valve automation options. There is an expansion board that can be purchased as an add-on to add four additional valve controls.

    I too would use as many Jandy valve as your budget can tolerate. The PVC ball valves do not allow for control and are prone to leaks and failure. Once they fail, there's no fixing them and you have to cut them out to replace them.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    I've replaced most of my standard PVC ball valves with Jandy Neverlube valves when they've gone bad or I needed to redo some plumbing. I don't mind doing PVC work but going with standard valves means you'll be replacing the entire valve in a few years when it wears out: cutting, splicing, gluing, swearing about how to configure and fit it back in without replumbing the whole set up... With Jandy valves, you can repair the valve in place if it should ever wear out but their durability is fairly well known.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    On the EasyTouch 8 (I have one) you're only going to have four (4) valve controls. Two them are already set for suction side and return side selection to operate the POOL and SPA mode function. The other two are labeled VALVE A and VALVE B in the system layout. So, in effect, that means you only have two extra valve automation options. There is an expansion board that can be purchased as an add-on to add four additional valve controls.

    I too would use as many Jandy valve as your budget can tolerate. The PVC ball valves do not allow for control and are prone to leaks and failure. Once they fail, there's no fixing them and you have to cut them out to replace them.
    From what you are saying, does it sound like I will be able to automate the bubblers with my controller? If they are each on a separate valve, would that take one or two automation options from my controller?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    I've replaced most of my standard PVC ball valves with Jandy Neverlube valves when they've gone bad or I needed to redo some plumbing. I don't mind doing PVC work but going with standard valves means you'll be replacing the entire valve in a few years when it wears out: cutting, splicing, gluing, swearing about how to configure and fit it back in without replumbing the whole set up... With Jandy valves, you can repair the valve in place if it should ever wear out but their durability is fairly well known.

    All things being equal, this is a very persuasive reason to use the Jandy valves. I'll try to fit them in the budget!
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Jamie,
    Do you have a preliminary plumbing plan?


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Jamie,
    Do you have a preliminary plumbing plan?
    I've been procrastinating making the time to start a photobucket account, so hopefully you can see these well pictures well enough.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Make sure that you get the NeverLube type, not the regular gray valves.

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Make sure that you get the NeverLube type, not the regular gray valves.
    Thanks, I didn't know there were two types. I was intending to use the Neverlube though.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Jamie,

    Do you want to control the water slide and bubblers separately?


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Good move on the neverlube valves all around.

    I had 3 ball valves in my last pool with solar and 1 jandy 3 way though it was the gray.

    one of the ball valves would barely move, fortunately it was the main drain and I rarely
    opened it...but still what a p.i.t.a.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Jamie,

    Do you want to control the water slide and bubblers separately?
    I would like them to be able to be on and off at different times, but I don't necessarily need the slide to come on at predetermined times like the bubblers. I thought I would adjust it manually, but can I/is it helpful to have it on the controller?
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    You want separate valves off a common header for your returns, the blubbers and the slide. When you program your pump you have different speeds for each activity ( or adjust the values or a combination thereof). So when you turn on the bubblers a valve opens the correct amount and the pump ramps up to the proper speed for the volume required. Same for the slide and returns. Most of the time your pump runs through the returns at ultra low speed.

    You also should have the return line run completely around the pool its cheap.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    You want separate valves off a common header for your returns, the blubbers and the slide.
    This is all new to me, so would you please tell me if this is what I already have designed, and if not, what exactly do I need to do?

    When you program your pump you have different speeds for each activity ( or adjust the values or a combination thereof). So when you turn on the bubblers a valve opens the correct amount and the pump ramps up to the proper speed for the volume required. Same for the slide and returns. Most of the time your pump runs through the returns at ultra low speed.
    This makes sense. One question... When we talk about automation of these valves, that is done through the controller, correct? Is special installation required to ensure these all work together? Does the plumber do this or the electrician?

    You also should have the return line run completely around the pool its cheap.
    Is this to balance the pressure around the pool? It looks like I would just have to connect the loop on the side of the pool near the steps, correct?
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    The slide seems like something that will be a low use device so I would not automate that. I would automate the bubblers. The EasyTouch system will allow you to create custom named feature circuits so you can automate speed changes in the pump when a particular feature is selected.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieP View Post

    This makes sense. One question... When we talk about automation of these valves, that is done through the controller, correct? Is special installation required to ensure these all work together? Does the plumber do this or the electrician?

    Normally a licensed Pentair installer would do the valve setups. The electrician is only going to install the panel and make sure the power is hooked up properly. It will be up to you to connect your equipment to the panel. Some electricians might be able to do this but few do. You'll have to ask.

    Programming the EasyTouch will be up to you. You can call Pentair technical support if you have specific questions. Or you can ask on here.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Normally a licensed Pentair installer would do the valve setups. The electrician is only going to install the panel and make sure the power is hooked up properly. It will be up to you to connect your equipment to the panel. Some electricians might be able to do this but few do. You'll have to ask.

    Programming the EasyTouch will be up to you. You can call Pentair technical support if you have specific questions. Or you can ask on here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
    That sounds right about the electrician. He quoted me $500 extra to set up the equipment. I guess what I don't understand is that these valves are plumbing components, but the EasyTouch controls everything electronically. This must be a pretty basic question, but how does it do that?
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    You will need CVA-24T actuators.

    Pentair 263045 180 Degree 3-Port Pool And Spa Valve Actuator

    Amazon.com: Pentair 263045 180 Degree 3-Port Pool And Spa Valve Actuator: Patio, Lawn Garden


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Ball valves or Jandy valves?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    You will need CVA-24T actuators.

    Pentair 263045 180 Degree 3-Port Pool And Spa Valve Actuator

    Amazon.com: Pentair 263045 180 Degree 3-Port Pool And Spa Valve Actuator: Patio, Lawn Garden


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
    Thanks, Matt. This is what I ordered and it looks like it comes with 2 actuators already. Do I need more than 2?Pentair Easy Touch Control System 521150. EasyTouch 8SC-IC60 Control System. Pentair 521150.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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