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Thread: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

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    New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Well, apparently, just new to me......

    Since the first of 2015, Taylor has been marking their reagents with both a Lot Number and an Expiration Date. Interestingly, it appears that they are giving 24 months between manufacture and expiration! (Although I'm sure they will continue urging folks to buy new reagents before every swim season.)

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    banditig's Avatar
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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    I have some left from 2013. No way I am buying this thingy I already have useless TDS meter they say needs to be below 1,500 ppm
    Welcome to Taylor Technologies
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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    I noticed that on my last few bottles. I'm glad they are at least printing an expiration date on the bottle. I have used 2-yr old reagents before and they performed exactly as expected. Then again, my reagents are always stored in a cool dark space and are rarely left out for the 20 mins or so it takes me to run tests.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by banditig View Post
    I have some left from 2013. No way I am buying this thingy I already have useless TDS meter they say needs to be below 1,500 ppm
    Welcome to Taylor Technologies
    I think we are getting our topics crossed!

    My original post was to address Taylor Reagents, which nearly everybody at TFP uses, regardless who packaged it.

    As for the "useless" TDS meter, my understanding is that the TTi 2000 is not intended to be used for testing TDS, but the Myron L meter, sold by Taylor, is. For the average TFP denizen, I can't imagine any concern for TDS or any benefit to using a digital colorimeter, other than the "coolness" factor. Of course, there might be an issue of colorblindness, but I have been told that others have overcome this, with respect to pool testing.... Personally, I can't speak to that.

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    I have recently listened to Taylor Webinars on this subject, and Taylor Technologies recommends replacing reagents every year. However, there are some reagents that they have an expiration date of longer than a year (18 months, very few are two years). The reagents placed in opaque bottles have an expiration of about one year as they are consumed quickly by sunlight.

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    The one year limit is Taylor's official in-house policy - they do not keep reagents around for more than a year. Most of the reagents, if properly stored in a temperature controlled environment with reasonable humidity (aka, inside your house), will last 2 to 3 years. See this post for a list of shelf lives. The only reagent that likely needs to replaced after a year is the R-0870 DPD powder.

    See this post - Recognizing a Compromised Reagent for how to spot a bad reagent.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by OTPirate View Post
    I have recently listened to Taylor Webinars on this subject, and Taylor Technologies recommends replacing reagents every year. However, there are some reagents that they have an expiration date of longer than a year (18 months, very few are two years). The reagents placed in opaque bottles have an expiration of about one year as they are consumed quickly by sunlight.
    Just from orders I have placed, I can vouch for the fact that:

    R-0010 and R-0003 are at least 23 months.

    R-0871 (Opaque Bottle) is at least 15 months.

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewkearns View Post
    Just from orders I have placed, I can vouch for the fact that:

    R-0010 and R-0003 are at least 23 months.

    R-0871 (Opaque Bottle) is at least 15 months.
    That makes sense.

    R-0010 is just sodium hydroxide. The only way it can get compromised is if it is left open to air because strong bases will absorb CO2 from the air. Highly unlikely to happen if it is capped and stored properly.

    R-0003 is potassium iodide which is relatively stable. Sometimes KI solutions can break down by reacting with oxygen and CO2 to produce elemental iodine but that would be rare in this case with proper storage.

    R-0871 is the ferrous ammonium sulfate titrant. It is possible for that to break down via light and heat. The main problem would be the ferrous ion (Fe2+) oxidizing to ferric ions (Fe3+). With proper storage at room temperature and away from light sources, any breakdown would be minimized. It's a relatively inexpensive reagent so it's not a big deal to toss it after 24months and get new one. I almost always run through my titrant within 18months.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    That makes sense.


    R-0871 is the ferrous ammonium sulfate titrant. It is possible for that to break down via light and heat. The main problem would be the ferrous ion (Fe2+) oxidizing to ferric ions (Fe3+). With proper storage at room temperature and away from light sources, any breakdown would be minimized. It's a relatively inexpensive reagent so it's not a big deal to toss it after 24months and get new one. I almost always run through my titrant within 18months.
    Proper storage is the key. I have calculated my consumption of reagents over the period of two seasons and I buy quantities appropriate to that end. I've never had a reagent fail to perform its duty. The most likely candidate to be a trouble maker is R-0870, which may need to be de-clumped.

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.



    I think I encountered my 1st "expired" occurrence with my pool testing reagents.

    I recently checked my pH with Taylor R-0014 (.75 Oz) that I had been using for a long time. The pH sample turned bright red, a color that I'd not seen since I began testing my pool chemicals myself in 2012.

    Since I never have seen my pH lower than 7.3 in the pool (it's only that low after adding acid to lower a higher reading), I suspected the R-0014 had reached its shelf life expiration.

    I tested the TA reading (Total Al) and it was 80-90 .

    I tested the sample again using a pH reagent from my OTO kit, a Pentair-brand reagent. The color was normal for a 7.8 reading (light violet color).

    I ordered a replacement R-0014 reagent and received it the other day. After reading this thread, I saw the expiration date on the bottle. The date shows an expiration date about 2 years in the future.

    I tested pH using the new R-0014 and all appears ok although I had added Muriatic Acid to lower the pH back to 7.5 so the color is the normal neutral 7.5 color at present using the new R-0014 .

    The old R-0014 didn't display any discoloration or fluid sticking to the bottle interior surface. All of my pool testing items are stored at room temp away from sunlight in a dry location.

    After reading this thread, I'll label my testing items on the date[s] I receive them to have a reference of the shelf lives for the items.
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    To be clear for those not fully familiar with the Taylor product line, there are two versions of the phenol red pH drops.

    The R-0014 reagent is typically found in the K-1001 and similar test kits that use the smaller volume midget comparator block (Taylor p/n #9782). The pH test water sample volume in that block is ~4.5mL.

    The R-0004 reagent is found in the 2000 series test kits (K-2006) that use the larger volume, multipurpose comparator blocks (Taylor p/n #9058). The pH test water sample volume in that block is ~44mL.

    Even though the reagents have similar chemistry, they are not interchangeable and will give the wrong color shade if not used with the proper comparator block. As well, if one has acid/base demand reagents, those are different as well for the different comparator blocks (R-0005 acid demand for the large volume 9058 block and R-0015 for the small volume 9782 block).


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    I think TFTestkits gives an 18 month guarantee.
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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
    I think TFTestkits gives an 18 month guarantee.
    As for the 18 month warranty, I've never actually seen it in print. I've seen it's existence mentioned on this website, yet I've never been able to find it mentioned anywhere else. I could have just missed it.

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    The 18 month warranty was spelled out on the front page of TFTestkits.net for more than a year but, in an apparent remake of that page, it has disappeared. I will find out what happened and post back.
    Dave S.
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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Sorry-I removed that guarantee after Taylor Technologies began putting expiration dates on their bottles and after learning more about Taylor Technologies recommendations for replacing reagents every year. I feel it is important to maintain industry standards.
    TFTestkits will stand by what Taylor Technologies recommends, which is to replace reagents every year. With that being said, if you have reagents you have ordered from us which you believe have expired and are less than one year old, please email me at tftestkits@gmail.com.

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by OTPirate View Post
    Sorry-I removed that guarantee after Taylor Technologies began putting expiration dates on their bottles and after learning more about Taylor Technologies recommendations for replacing reagents every year. I feel it is important to maintain industry standards.
    Thanks for the clarification and update, OTPirate.

    It might be helpful to the newest forum users to update THIS page, due to changes and further clarification.

    I know when I came on board as a newbie to pool chemistry, this table was a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. It took us 53 weeks to close on our new (to us) house with the pool and I had way too much time on my hands to do research and create spreadsheets.

    For example, I couldn't figure out how to predict the number of FAS/DPD chlorine tests from a given volume of reagent, without knowing the target chlorine value and the sample size (10 mL vs. 25 mL). The same issue exists with TA and CH, to a lesser degree, since the target values determine the amount of titrant consumed.

    Basically, I had a whale of a time trying to figure out how much of each reagent was in each bottle of the TF-100 kit and how those quantities played out in my assumption of how I would test. I based my purchase decision on the quantities listed in the refill kit... in retrospect, I don't know if I got those quantities right, or not.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    I see no reason to update that table, since I helped create it

    It is meant to be a rough comparison between the kits and not tell you how many tests you can do exactly, which will vary based on one's own pool chemistry. For example someone with a CH of a 1000 is going to use many more drops than someone with a CH of 100.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post


    I think I encountered my 1st "expired" occurrence with my pool testing reagents.

    I recently checked my pH with Taylor R-0014 (.75 Oz) that I had been using for a long time. The pH sample turned bright red, a color that I'd not seen since I began testing my pool chemicals myself in 2012.

    Since I never have seen my pH lower than 7.3 in the pool (it's only that low after adding acid to lower a higher reading), I suspected the R-0014 had reached its shelf life expiration.

    I tested the TA reading (Total Al) and it was 80-90 .

    I tested the sample again using a pH reagent from my OTO kit, a Pentair-brand reagent. The color was normal for a 7.8 reading (light violet color).

    I ordered a replacement R-0014 reagent and received it the other day. After reading this thread, I saw the expiration date on the bottle. The date shows an expiration date about 2 years in the future.

    I tested pH using the new R-0014 and all appears ok although I had added Muriatic Acid to lower the pH back to 7.5 so the color is the normal neutral 7.5 color at present using the new R-0014 .

    The old R-0014 didn't display any discoloration or fluid sticking to the bottle interior surface. All of my pool testing items are stored at room temp away from sunlight in a dry location.

    After reading this thread, I'll label my testing items on the date[s] I receive them to have a reference of the shelf lives for the items.
    Are you sure you didn't happen to have a very high FC when you try to do the test which resulted in an abnormally high and false pH reading?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    I have asked Leebo to change the warranty period back to 12 months for the TF-50 and TF-100.

    Like jblizzle, I see no reason to alter any other part of that chart.
    Dave S.
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    Re: New Policy at Taylor Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Are you sure you didn't happen to have a very high FC when you try to do the test which resulted in an abnormally high and false pH reading?
    It doesn't appear that way, however, that's a good idea I hadn't considered recently. Thanks.

    Here's my FC test #'s at the same time I was checking for pH and saw the unusual red pH test color results:

    FC 4
    FC 6

    The FC/CYA ratio range at the time of these tests was FC 3-7 (CYA ~35).
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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