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Thread: Desperatly seeking Soothing

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    Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Just bought a house with an indoor pool and I am learning as much as I can about pools. On top of all the honey-do's of moving, unpacking, dump runs with cardboard, kids, work and re-re-re arranging furniture. I have to maintain a pool of which I know absolutely nothing about, other than it is like a big fish tank I have to control the water quality of so the fish don't all go platinum blonde, albino, red eyed whining zombie on me. The previous owner gave me a two minute shakedown on what I needed to do to maintain it. "Flip this breaker, Turn this valve to here, turn breaker on, run for a bit, shake this stuff in like this, this goes in there, don't mess with them, Blah Blah Blah.... Make Sense?" Ssssure! Which Pretty much was translated into the, "watch your uncle pull a quarter from behind your ear" Trick when it came time to get behind the green curtain and make the wizard talk.


    So a million questions to ask and answer. Google is a b-e-a-u-tiful thing when you need a question answered. Most of them have been asked before so It's pretty easy to get an answered. The only questions I have at this point that my google-fu isn't finding is: The previous owner never used the Spa and said that we could only run one at a time? I have fiddled with all the valves and managed to fill the spa from the pool. Upon doing so I have found that two of the four jets just dribble if that and the other two were very strong. When the spa was filled to a good level I shut the Pool suction and return lines down and opened the spa return line. At this point I should have been filtering just the spa. Right? The pressure gauge on the filter went from around 12-15 PSI to 30 PSI, and the two working jets would pulsate along with a gurgling sound coming from some 1.5" vent line(?) that goes up through the tile and out the wall. The valves took me a second to figure out and I'm still a little unsure I am doing it correctly. The ball valves are a no brainer, the two jandy 3 position valves are where I'm kind of unsure if I have them right. The spa Definitely has some issues with clogged or fubar jets. Why can't I filter both the spa and the pool at the same time? When I try to, the water gets sucked out of the spa and into the pool. Why would somebody set it up that way in the first place? What do I have to do here?

    Here are the pictures of the valve setups. This might help eh?
    20151129_130825.jpg20151129_130840.jpg
    34' x 17' 10' deep end, in ground, indoor, fiberglass 1 skimmer, 1 main, 1 return
    6' x 6' 4 jet in ground spa Zodiac Legacy LRZ250EN Natty Gas heater Sta-Rite 1 H.P. Model #PHK2RA63-102L Pump
    Hayward S244T Filter Pentair model 300 Off-line feeder Dri-Aire model D-048U Humidifier

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    HI! What fun but what a pain at the same time! SO much to do and so few hands to do it with!

    Good for you for already playing around with the valves and such. Spas are not my strong point but like you I really think you should be able to do both at the same time. I sure hope so! I wonder what is up with the spa jets that do not work as well???

    Did you have an inspection of the pool done before the sale? That was nice of the former owner to tell you that info but....he should have made sure it all worked before he went to the closing. I wonder if you can have them pay for a "real" pool expert (not some kid from the pool store) come out to look at your jets and such?

    I DO know you need your own test kit. Yeah I know the pool store will test for "free" but is it really free if you walk out of the pool store with $$$ of stuff? Nope Look in my siggy for the test kits we use and love. I also have a link to where to buy them.

    I am going to put a call out to a couple of people I know that has a pool with spas to ask them your question.

    I would LOVE to see a pic of your pool as well!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Whoa! You need to move some more furniture...you have too much time on your hands if you can write that post! Hahaha.

    Welcome to the forum and pool ownership! Fun stuff!!!

    Someone will be along soon to help with those valves. When the furniture gets done, read this and get online and order yourself a testkit: Pool School - Test Kits Compared

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hahaha. Cross-post. Your cheering section has arrived!!!

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    20151129_131014.jpg
    Here is a quick picture of the pool. I started to monkey around with the valves again and I Think I have the filter just circulating the spa at this point. At one time sucking 25% of the water out of the spa before I could get back to the pump room. I also got all four jets going, two were shut off (just had to turn them). That stopped the gurgling and pulsating and now I'm assuming that vent is an air vent to add bubbles? It now sounds like a jet instead of a snoring troll with a drooling problem.. I have a test kit that the previous owner left it is a rainbow lifeguard 5 in 1 test kit model 78. I ordered some more ph supplies because the ph is high and I can't bring it down. I really want to be able to use the spa because, well it's there.... I just need to know if I can filter both the pool and spa so I don't end up with a dirty spa full of spiders that takes 3 days to heat up and filter because it wasn't being maintained like the pool does. If I can't do that with the pump and valves I have. I'm sure I can get some insight from you all on how I can make that happen. Maybe a pump for each?
    34' x 17' 10' deep end, in ground, indoor, fiberglass 1 skimmer, 1 main, 1 return
    6' x 6' 4 jet in ground spa Zodiac Legacy LRZ250EN Natty Gas heater Sta-Rite 1 H.P. Model #PHK2RA63-102L Pump
    Hayward S244T Filter Pentair model 300 Off-line feeder Dri-Aire model D-048U Humidifier

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Nice pool!

    Sorry, but that testkit ain't gonna cut it. Cancel the order you already placed for pH supplies and get one of our recommended kits. As you learn your valves, mark them with a sharpie.

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    I see two monkeys in the pool now! Is this an indoor pool?

    I took a quick look at your test kit. It is missing one HUGE test--------the test for CYA (stabilizer). I am going to post a couple of links for you to see the whys and hows of TFP.

    What we use in our pools........most of it can be bought at Walmart! How neat is that??

    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    You might want to print this one out. It is the levels for each part of the water for safe, clean, balanced water:

    Pool School - Recommended Levels

    This one will show you how FC and CYA work together. They are "buddies" that help each other.

    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

    Here is the big one. It will take some reading and rereading but you will find it all starts to make sense as you work with it.

    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

    I have reached out to a couple of people that might be able to help with valves/pool/spa questions. I hope they will jump in here soon!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Welcome to TFP!!! Wow, what a great looking set up for your pool! And it looks like you've already got some necessary ingredients for a great pool - kids and fun!

    I have a spa and pool just completed the end of July; which means I know very little. I'll share how my setup works, but I believe it's all in the plumbing. Sadly your pictures of your plumbing don't tell ME a thing. But many of the experts around here will look at those photos and be able to tell you what you need to know.

    Most of the time when my main pump is on, water is circulating through both the spa and pool. When we want powerful jet action in the spa, then we can set it for just the spa, and the pool is 'still' or no circulation happening.

    As a rule, my spa does not empty completely - only if I were to open the drain valve for repairs or something.

    I wish I could help more. But others will be around to help.

    Congrats on the new house and pool! It will be fun!

    Take care,
    Suz.
    Suz~Cypress area~ 2015 pool build. 23K gallons. IG swcg system. 35'x18'; 573sf; 104' perim; depth 4'-7'. Bubblers, sheer descents, 7' spa. Jandy: color LEDs; 2HP 2sp pump; 1HP 2sp pump; spa pump; 580 cartridge; 400K BTU; Dolphin M500; PS8; Inline chlorinator not used; Aqua Pure 1400. Blue Granite Sheen. Travertine deck. Lightstreams Peacock Blue TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    So it sounds like a matter of playing with the valves to find where they need to be set to work in both the spa and pool at the same time. I HOPE that it can be done.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Floaty,

    I noticed it. You are hereby nominated for "Clever Thread Title of the Year"

    Very good!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Is the spa overflow connected to the pool? If yes, then you can keep the spa return valve slightly open to return part of the water to the spa and let it overflow back into the pool. Do not open the spa suction valve during normal pool operation. The only time the spa suction valve needs to be opened is when the pool is in full spa mode and you want to only circulate the water through the spa.

    If the spa drains when the pump is not running then you will need a check valve on the spa return line to prevent the spa from draining. It should only drain down to the level of the return jets.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Yes, those are the Monkeys, and yes it is an indoor pool. Tanks for the reading material. (LOL) I will get into reading them tonight. So I guess the way my filter/pump setup is, is set up to only filter the pool or the spa? Not both? Why is there always a brownish sand looking stuff at the bottom of the pool? Barry(Barracuda) sucks it up, but it is there the next day...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks, I was waiting for someone to see that.
    34' x 17' 10' deep end, in ground, indoor, fiberglass 1 skimmer, 1 main, 1 return
    6' x 6' 4 jet in ground spa Zodiac Legacy LRZ250EN Natty Gas heater Sta-Rite 1 H.P. Model #PHK2RA63-102L Pump
    Hayward S244T Filter Pentair model 300 Off-line feeder Dri-Aire model D-048U Humidifier

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    Is the spa overflow connected to the pool? If yes, then you can keep the spa return valve slightly open to return part of the water to the spa and let it overflow back into the pool. Do not open the spa suction valve during normal pool operation. The only time the spa suction valve needs to be opened is when the pool is in full spa mode and you want to only circulate the water through the spa.

    If the spa drains when the pump is not running then you will need a check valve on the spa return line to prevent the spa from draining. It should only drain down to the level of the return jets.
    I'm not sure if there is a spa overflow... If it is set up like a tub would be, or a sink, there is no overflow apparatus.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Floaty,

    I noticed it. You are hereby nominated for "Clever Thread Title of the Year"

    Very good!
    Haha You got it.
    34' x 17' 10' deep end, in ground, indoor, fiberglass 1 skimmer, 1 main, 1 return
    6' x 6' 4 jet in ground spa Zodiac Legacy LRZ250EN Natty Gas heater Sta-Rite 1 H.P. Model #PHK2RA63-102L Pump
    Hayward S244T Filter Pentair model 300 Off-line feeder Dri-Aire model D-048U Humidifier

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzfromTexas View Post
    Welcome to TFP!!! Wow, what a great looking set up for your pool! And it looks like you've already got some necessary ingredients for a great pool - kids and fun!

    I have a spa and pool just completed the end of July; which means I know very little. I'll share how my setup works, but I believe it's all in the plumbing. Sadly your pictures of your plumbing don't tell ME a thing. But many of the experts around here will look at those photos and be able to tell you what you need to know.

    Most of the time when my main pump is on, water is circulating through both the spa and pool. When we want powerful jet action in the spa, then we can set it for just the spa, and the pool is 'still' or no circulation happening.

    As a rule, my spa does not empty completely - only if I were to open the drain valve for repairs or something.

    I wish I could help more. But others will be around to help.

    Congrats on the new house and pool! It will be fun!

    Take care,
    Suz.
    Here is what the valves are in the pics. The two ball valves with the red handles on the right are for suction. Front is pool rear is spa. The red handle all the way in the back on the left is spa return. The Jandy valves don't really make sense to me. I have to turn both of them to get the pool separated from the system. I guess I can try to crack the spa suction and return and see if I can find a happy medium without draining the spa.
    34' x 17' 10' deep end, in ground, indoor, fiberglass 1 skimmer, 1 main, 1 return
    6' x 6' 4 jet in ground spa Zodiac Legacy LRZ250EN Natty Gas heater Sta-Rite 1 H.P. Model #PHK2RA63-102L Pump
    Hayward S244T Filter Pentair model 300 Off-line feeder Dri-Aire model D-048U Humidifier

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    It will take some playing around but I bet there is a purrfect mixture that will allow you to run both. It will take some trying and retrying.

    Spa overflow could be it flowing over the side of the spa into the pool like a waterfall. That is how Suz's is set up. OH so pretty and nice sounding too!

    Hugs..........you will get if figured out. It might help if someone else can watch and report (yell!) what happens when you do this and that to the valves.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Floaty

    Can we step back and get a couple of pictures of the entire equipment pad please. A picture of the entire pool would be helpful also.
    With those we can give you a explanation of how your pool works.

    Gordon
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Waiting for those pics... How's it going? Did you order a recommended test kit yet?

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Sorry I am a little late to the party here, but I am going to tell you what everyone else has been saying too, you need one of our recommended kits (I use and endorse the TF-100, it really is the best bargain in the long run, and only a few dollars more than the Taylor K-2006). Also as one of the few regulars here with an indoor pool, I will gladly try to help with the indoor pool specific concerns. The big concerns you will tend to find with indoor residential pools is humidity issues, particularly if / when the water is heated, and water quality concerns, particularly build up of Combined Chlorine products. Having said that most of the standard advice given here applies to indoor pools, with only a few variations, first the CYA level for an indoor pool should be held lower, I keep mine between 20-30 ppm, this is because it is difficult to accurately test CYA below 20 ppm, and keep my FC level proportionately in line for this CYA level at 3.0 - 4.5 ppm FC. One other thing you will find with an indoor pool is that FC levels fall MUCH more slowly than they do with an outdoor pool as long as nothing is trying to grow, and that in general your chlorine consumption will be MUCH lower.

    Ike

    p.s. if I am slow to respond as this thread progresses it is because my wife and I are leaving to go on a cruise in a few days and will not have much access to the internet until a couple of days before christmas.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    It will take some playing around but I bet there is a purrfect mixture that will allow you to run both. It will take some trying and retrying.

    Spa overflow could be it flowing over the side of the spa into the pool like a waterfall. That is how Suz's is set up. OH so pretty and nice sounding too!

    Hugs..........you will get if figured out. It might help if someone else can watch and report (yell!) what happens when you do this and that to the valves.

    Kim
    Ok I have the spa filtering w/ the pool. I just had to find the sweet spot on the spa suction valve to keep it from sucking more water out of the spa that what the spa return valve was putting in. Not a waterfall. The only thing remotely looking like an overflow is a Vent that goes outside by the spa. But it would just drain on the concrete and not be recycled into the system. It makes a gurgling sound when the spa is on and is way higher than the spa so if I tried to over flow the spa it would take a lot of water to get to the highpoint of that vent. Most likely it would flood the pool room and flow back into the pool before reaching that point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    Waiting for those pics... How's it going? Did you order a recommended test kit yet?
    Ok will post some more pics.
    34' x 17' 10' deep end, in ground, indoor, fiberglass 1 skimmer, 1 main, 1 return
    6' x 6' 4 jet in ground spa Zodiac Legacy LRZ250EN Natty Gas heater Sta-Rite 1 H.P. Model #PHK2RA63-102L Pump
    Hayward S244T Filter Pentair model 300 Off-line feeder Dri-Aire model D-048U Humidifier

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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    Sorry I am a little late to the party here, but I am going to tell you what everyone else has been saying too, you need one of our recommended kits (I use and endorse the TF-100, it really is the best bargain in the long run, and only a few dollars more than the Taylor K-2006). Also as one of the few regulars here with an indoor pool, I will gladly try to help with the indoor pool specific concerns. The big concerns you will tend to find with indoor residential pools is humidity issues, particularly if / when the water is heated, and water quality concerns, particularly build up of Combined Chlorine products. Having said that most of the standard advice given here applies to indoor pools, with only a few variations, first the CYA level for an indoor pool should be held lower, I keep mine between 20-30 ppm, this is because it is difficult to accurately test CYA below 20 ppm, and keep my FC level proportionately in line for this CYA level at 3.0 - 4.5 ppm FC. One other thing you will find with an indoor pool is that FC levels fall MUCH more slowly than they do with an outdoor pool as long as nothing is trying to grow, and that in general your chlorine consumption will be MUCH lower.

    Ike

    p.s. if I am slow to respond as this thread progresses it is because my wife and I are leaving to go on a cruise in a few days and will not have much access to the internet until a couple of days before christmas.

    The Tf-100 will be delivered on Dec. 10th. The pool is indoor and also has a retractable cover. Here is a full picture of the equipment room and the pool/ spa. Spa is in the top right of course.

    http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/rj...slideshow/pool
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Floaty; 12-06-2015 at 07:39 PM. Reason: pics still not working properly
    34' x 17' 10' deep end, in ground, indoor, fiberglass 1 skimmer, 1 main, 1 return
    6' x 6' 4 jet in ground spa Zodiac Legacy LRZ250EN Natty Gas heater Sta-Rite 1 H.P. Model #PHK2RA63-102L Pump
    Hayward S244T Filter Pentair model 300 Off-line feeder Dri-Aire model D-048U Humidifier

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Desperatly seeking Soothing

    What an awesome set up! So pretty. Are you able to heat and use it year round?

    You are going to LOVE your new test kit! It will save you So much money!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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