winter concrete question with vinyl liner pool

[Stew1751]

Good morning. This is my first true post after my introduction post and I look forward to everyone's advice and thank you.
We are in the middle of a backyard overall that includes a pool build. Pool will be a variation of the mountain lake design 26' by 42'. It is a vinyl liner with steel walls, concrete floor and concrete steps and benches.
Pool has been dug out, walls placed and concrete collar and partial gravel backfill in.
To be honest, I do not have any trust in our builder. The overall job is way behind, due to his poor organization and shady ways.
Our temps right now average mid to upper 40's for highs and 30 for lows. He claims it is ok, to pour the concrete pool floor, steps and benches now and not place liner until spring.
The ground is not frozen, so issues with the concrete integrity is not my main concern and I realize it it already too cold for placement of the vinyl liner. My concern is the fact that the concrete will rise and crack when the ground freezes if the concrete floor is placed without the weight and warmth of the water sitting on top of it during the winter freeze.
Is my concern a valid one and what are everyone's suggestions? This is our first pool build and what should be a very exciting time has consistently been a very stressful one. Thank you all for your advice and have a great day.

 

[Stew1751]

This is a pic of our current status.

 

[Catanzaro]

One of the biggest problems that you are faced with at this time is shifting of the soil due to a heavy winter and possibility a lot of rain. What exactly does your contract state? Is there a time limit on when the PB is supposed to finish the job, from start to finish? My contract stated that everything would be done in 30 days and one day of rain increased the completion time by another two days, and weekends did not count. Even though I had some problems with my PB, they were done from start to finish in 10 days (This did not include backfilling, concrete, etc.)

It is recommended that you go through your contract to determine what recourse you have and what type of warranty you are dealing with. I also would recommend a 6" crushed stone base outside the steel walls before any cement is poured. This will help with drainage and expansion during the cold winters. If you decide to move forward, maybe have the PB provide something to you in writing regarding any damage to the floor, etc. If you decide to pour the base, you will also have to purchase a large cover to protect everything. There may be a lot of water that accumulates over the winter, but you can easily pump out in the spring.

BTW, that is a beautiful pool. Nice shape.

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[Stew1751]

Thank you for your quick reply. Sig has been added to best of my ability at this time! Sadly our ignorance in this process is evident after researching an answer to your question. There is not time table actually written in contract regarding pool completion. Two months for total completion was stated, but not written out. This is a large project and it started on October 12. Here's a list of our status:
-Demo of old deck and and patio complete.
-retaining wall complete (pool is being built into slope)
-14' by 18' deck complete (house is a 2 story walk out)
-upper patio complete
-pool steel walls in and concrete collar in. Gravel backfill in up to plumbing and lighting height, which will be completed on next dry day.

 

[kimkats]

I will be keeping an eye on this one.

Things in writing is the best way to go..........."PB if you want to do the cement now put it in writing how you will fix any damage before the liner is put in".

I wish you major luck!

Kim

 

[Divin Dave]

Is the bottom actually going to be concrete? Or will it be pool crete or a mixture of vermiculite, portland cement and sand?
Both of which could be considered a 'concrete product'.

If its actually concrete, is will probably be OK. But if its pool crete or vermiculite, then its probably not advisable to install it and leave it over the winter.
pool crete and vermiculite bottoms are not like real concrete. there isnt any rebar and its not very structrally strong, plus, its applied to only about 2 inches thick.

Since the walls are backfilled with gravel, I don't think there will be much risk to heaving which could make the walls out of plumb.

 

[Catanzaro]

I am looking at the picture again and it appears you have water in the deep end, which could be a concern. You may want to contact your State regarding contractor obligations, etc. There may be State laws that the PB has to adhere to that is not written in the contract, which may give you a slight advantage in your situation.

In NJ, if a homeowner wins a suit, the contractor is to pay at least 2X the damages that were incurred. As Kim mentioned, at this point, everything should be put in writing before you more forward. Somehow, PB seem to always find a way to blame the homeowner for every problem that is incurred.

 

[duraleigh]

To be honest, I do not have any trust in our builder. The overall job is way behind, due to his poor organization and shady ways.

Then I would suggest get rid of him if you do not trust him or his building techniques. There's no point in working with someone you don't think can do an adequate job. Cut your losses now.

On the other hand, you can always have a face-to-face and address your issues and see if the outcome gives you confidence to go ahead.

 

[Stew1751]

So had the face to face with him today. To his credit, he was out here on a Sunday, plumbing, due to rain in the forecast tomorrow. He states that he does not plan on using poolcrete for the pool floor. He plans to place 4 inch, 5000psi, 6 sack Torpedo mix with fiber mesh additive. I have seen that mix used for patio space before, so I know it's strong. Please give me your thoughts on preceding. I will write up a contract for him to sign on repairing any issues with concrete in the Spring.

 

[Catanzaro]

I would also have him supply or pay for the winter cover (which would have to be quite large at this point) to protect his work as the liner will be placed in the spring.