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Thread: Layout and excavation question

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Layout and excavation question

    Just so I know what to expect, should the line drawn on the ground during the layout of the pool before excavation exactly correspond to the water's edge perimeter of the pool as drawn on my engineering plans? I'm not there yet, but I want to be prepared. Any insight would be appreciated.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    The outline drawn in paint is roughly equal to plan. It's there for the excavator or backhoe to hit a mark. The crew will also hand dig with shovels. Depending on the specified shotcrete thickness (typically minimum 6"), the final hole should be slightly larger than plan to accommodate rebar and concrete.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Thanks, Matt. That's what I would have expected, but I wanted to be sure. I thought I read here where someone's layout was smaller than their plan, but their PB said that's how they did it, so it had me concerned.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    My outline was the water's edge. It didn't include the extra for the 12" shotcrete or the forms. You need to make sure to ask what the outline represents. Does it include the shotcrete or not? etc...

    Also don't get too upset if it looks small in your yard. Honestly I was really unhappy with the outline. I even ended up making the far end of my pool bigger because of it (I am still happy I did that) but once they dig the actual hole it will seem so huge.
    Pool is done! Only took 17 months! - Natural shape in-ground pool: 37x23, 505sq ft, 96ft perimeter, 7ft deep end, 18,950 gallons, tanning ledge, blue surf pebble sheen/luminous blue blend, Belgard coping, 910 sqft paver deck/walkways, retaining walls out the yinyang. Jandy SWG, 2 LED Color lights, VS 2HP Pump, 460sqft cartridge filter, PDA RS P8 controller. My build

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    bdrums's Avatar
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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    I believe our line corresponded to actual excavation.



    - - - Updated - - -



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ummgood View Post
    but once they dig the actual hole it will seem so huge.
    No kidding!
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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Agreed with all comments above, each excavator crew will be different. Talk with the excavation foreman and/or your PB to clarify exact measurements. If you want to impress (and scare) the excavator crew, go buy a 50ft tape measure and a hard hat from Home Depot and measure the layout when they go on break in the morning If they see you measuring and taking notes, they'll be a bit more careful.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Haha! I've already got the tape measure, so all it would take is the hardhat... That would be hilarious! I'm all for them being a bit more careful.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieP View Post
    Haha! I've already got the tape measure, so all it would take is the hardhat... That would be hilarious! I'm all for them being a bit more careful.
    If they see someone at home and think they're being watched, they will work better and be more careful. I honestly believe that, when at all possible, you should insist on being at home anytime a subcontractor is there. Good PBs try to show up on site as often as they can but they will rarely be there all the time. So being home and attentive to the project is a must in my opinion.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    If they see someone at home and think they're being watched, they will work better and be more careful. I honestly believe that, when at all possible, you should insist on being at home anytime a subcontractor is there. Good PBs try to show up on site as often as they can but they will rarely be there all the time. So being home and attentive to the project is a must in my opinion.
    I'm sure you're right about that. We are just waiting on our final engineering plans and then this is going to be an owner build (I'll start a dedicated thread soon.) I'm home all the time anyway, so it will be a given that I will be supervising closely. The funny part (aside from the hardhat ) is that I will be five months pregnant by the time this build actually starts in January (if all goes well) since the engineering has taken so long. Hopefully they know not to mess with a pregnant woman! My husband works from home two-three days per week so he'll be good backup.
    Last edited by JamieP; 11-24-2015 at 07:42 AM. Reason: Pregnant brain did the math wrong on how far along I'd be by January! ;-)
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieP View Post
    I'm sure you're right about that. We are just waiting on our final engineering plans and then this is going to be an owner build (I'll start a dedicated thread soon.) I'm home all the time anyway, so it will be a given that I will be supervising closely. The funny part (aside from the hardhat ) is that I will be six months pregnant by the time this build actually starts in January (if all goes well) since the engineering has taken so long. Hopefully they know not to mess with a pregnant woman! My husband works from home two-three days per week so he'll be good backup.
    Congratulations! If the subs know what's good for them, they will know NOT to mess with a pregnant woman. And, double-whammy, if you go out there and push your belly out and walk like your back is hurting a bit, you can totally play the sympathy card!!

    By the way, this item might interest you


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Congratulations! If the subs know what's good for them, they will know NOT to mess with a pregnant woman. And, double-whammy, if you go out there and push your belly out and walk like your back is hurting a bit, you can totally play the sympathy card!!

    By the way, this item might interest you
    Thank you! That sleeper would be a fitting outfit for this baby considering the timing of how all this pool planning has gone and when our eventual build will end. I just hope the pool building process is at least a little easier than labor. But, each has it's own reward at the end!
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    I want to reiterate what Matt said above because its right on. As the owner you should go out and introduce your self to each crew as they show up in the morning.

    You should ask what they are going to do that day and generally how they are going to do it. With pool layout you should approve it before they dig. Don't be afraid to measure. Elevation is just as important as placement. Remember to take into account setbacks (measured from edge of water). DON"T EYEBALL IT. After they surveying crew laughs in your face because you missed the corner by at least 100 feet you learn not to eyeball it (and buy beer). Measure twice dig once.

    You can leave but check back at least once during the day. Don't be afraid to ask polite questions or call your superintendent with questions.

    If you are there, asking polite questions and if necessary intervening, you will get a superior product and less disputes with your PB.

    Generally plaster, gunite and masonry crews like beer at the end of the day.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Jamie!!!!!!! You have to get the hard hat and make it look well used! Take a hummer to it and some oil or marker to mark it up!

    The baby bump out with a measuring tape should make sure you get an awesome pool!

    I would have a large copy of the plans hung where it can be seen by all. Take pics and share here often.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    I want to reiterate what Matt said above because its right on. As the owner you should go out and introduce your self to each crew as they show up in the morning.

    You should ask what they are going to do that day and generally how they are going to do it. With pool layout you should approve it before they dig. Don't be afraid to measure. Elevation is just as important as placement. Remember to take into account setbacks (measured from edge of water). DON"T EYEBALL IT. After they surveying crew laughs in your face because you missed the corner by at least 100 feet you learn not to eyeball it (and buy beer). Measure twice dig once.

    You can leave but check back at least once during the day. Don't be afraid to ask polite questions or call your superintendent with questions.

    If you are there, asking polite questions and if necessary intervening, you will get a superior product and less disputes with your PB.

    Generally plaster, gunite and masonry crews like beer at the end of the day.
    Great advice! How does Dos Equis sound for the beer? (We once bartered a ping pong table from Craigslist for a case of it!)

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    Jamie!!!!!!! You have to get the hard hat and make it look well used! Take a hummer to it and some oil or marker to mark it up!

    The baby bump out with a measuring tape should make sure you get an awesome pool!

    I would have a large copy of the plans hung where it can be seen by all. Take pics and share here often.

    Kim
    I don't know if I could actually pull off the hard hat thing... I'll take a picture if I brave it though!

    Kim, I remember your advice from other threads about having a large copy of the plans out for everyone to reference. I was going to do that, but appreciate the reminder.

    Plans should be finalized tomorrow and then hopefully I can start sending them to subs for bid. I had wanted to have this going by October, but obviously that didn't happen, so I'm planning on trying to start in January. I figure we still get the benefit of the slow time. I'm going to buy my equipment now before possible new year price increases. Hopefully the weather in January will cooperate. I will certainly post lots of pictures when the time comes!
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieP View Post
    Just so I know what to expect, should the line drawn on the ground during the layout of the pool before excavation exactly correspond to the water's edge perimeter of the pool as drawn on my engineering plans? I'm not there yet, but I want to be prepared. Any insight would be appreciated.
    Every builder and excavation company is different. My excavation company laid out the excavation line. the h2o line was about 12 inches in.
    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by azjoshers79 View Post
    Every builder and excavation company is different. My excavation company laid out the excavation line. the h2o line was about 12 inches in.
    That's very good to know. I'll just be sure to talk to the excavation guys before they start so I know what to expect and can measure their accuracy based on how they say they are doing it. Thanks!
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieP View Post
    I'm sure you're right about that. We are just waiting on our final engineering plans and then this is going to be an owner build (I'll start a dedicated thread soon.) I'm home all the time anyway, so it will be a given that I will be supervising closely. The funny part (aside from the hardhat ) is that I will be six months pregnant by the time this build actually starts in January (if all goes well) since the engineering has taken so long. Hopefully they know not to mess with a pregnant woman! My husband works from home two-three days per week so he'll be good backup.
    Congratulations Jamie!!
    is this your first?
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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursenini View Post
    Congratulations Jamie!!
    is this your first?
    Thank you, Nursenini! We are very excited. The more kids we are blessed with, the bigger the pool needs to be... This will be our seventh child.
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieP View Post
    Thank you, Nursenini! We are very excited. The more kids we are blessed with, the bigger the pool needs to be... This will be our seventh child.
    Jamie,

    If you can manage a home and 7 kids, then keeping a few ornery pool sub-contractors in line should be a walk in the park
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JamieP's Avatar
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    Re: Layout and excavation question

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Jamie,

    If you can manage a home and 7 kids, then keeping a few ornery pool sub-contractors in line should be a walk in the park
    Haha! Sounds like words of wisdom coming from another parent who knows!
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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