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Thread: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

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    lovemyazpool's Avatar
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    Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    We have just drained and refilled our pool and we have the Taylor 2006C test kit, but I opted to run down to NPS and have the water tested. We are just at the level now where we can start our pump.

    NPS claims that their automated test system is very accurate, it is computer based instead of human based.

    First question - Do people believe that the NPS computer water tests are accurate? Leslie's is right around the corner from me (they have purchased NPS) and its a pretty easy thing to run the water bottle down there for accurate reading. Or is it more accurate to run my own tests?

    Pool is 33,000 gallons filled from our tap.

    Next - here are the test results:

    TC: 0.8
    FC: 0.8
    pH: 7.9
    TA: 135
    CH: 250
    CYA: 55


    They are recommending 1qt of acid, run filter for 4 hours and then add chlorine.

    Second Question: Does this sound right?


    Last question - I have been using bleach, getting it at Home Depot, but Leslie's is selling their liquid chlorine 10% solution for just under $7.00 for 2 gallons, which is less than the bleach costs me. Is this OK to use for chlorine? I'm converting to a SWG system in about two weeks so hopefully I won't need much, but this seems like even less expensive than using bleach, I just want to make sure there is nothing in that product that will harm the pool.

    Thanks
    33,000 Gallon, IG Plaster
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    Pentair Triton II TR100 Sand Filter
    Pentair IntelliFlo Pump
    AutoPilot SWG & Chemical Controller

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    lovemyazpool's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    OK, I am now totally confused. I was a bit skeptical about the CYA being at 55 with a new fill so I went ahead and tested it with the Taylor 2006 test kit and I am coming up with ZERO discernible CYA at all. I ran the test three times. So now I am concerned about the overall validity of their tests.

    Can anyone think of a reason their "automatic, computer based" tests are not accurate or why they would be showing 55ppm CYA and I am showing nothing at all?

    Thanks
    33,000 Gallon, IG Plaster
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    Pentair Triton II TR100 Sand Filter
    Pentair IntelliFlo Pump
    AutoPilot SWG & Chemical Controller

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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Hello and welcome,

    Yes the liquid would be fine. especially if it's cheaper. When using bleach you have to be careful of dates as bleach loses strength over time. I would think leslies supply would be fresh.

    As far as testing, I'm not familiar with NPS, but from my years of trusting testing sources before finding TFP and getting my own test kit, I will NEVER let anyone test my water but me (and I am no chemist)

    Hope that helps, Si
    Si -central Mo. 32' x 16' -- 3'4" to 6' deep Vinyl liner - 16,500 Gals : Triton II filter -Duraglass 2 hp pump - 1 speed : SI-30 salt generator
    TF-100 with speedstir

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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    If you read enough of the threads on TFP you will find that we put zero trust in pool store results. It does not matter what system they use, they are always off. There is little point to discussing why their results are off.

    You own the best test kit chemicals on the market. The tests are easy to do and, best of all, you only have to rely on yourself doing them. There is no human variation to the testing. Trust yourself and your own testing abilities.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    lefty51's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Just noticed your CYA results. Are you sure you are testing correctly? The CYA test is a PITA until you get the hang of it.
    Si -central Mo. 32' x 16' -- 3'4" to 6' deep Vinyl liner - 16,500 Gals : Triton II filter -Duraglass 2 hp pump - 1 speed : SI-30 salt generator
    TF-100 with speedstir

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Don't know about up in Phoenix but down here in Tucson we have a mom & pop pool store (eKonomy Pools) that's been in business for over 20 years. The nice part is they sell Hasa brand acid and liquid chlorine in bulk refillable containers. It's way cheaper than any other source. So if you can find a supplier like that in your area, you'll do much better than any of the pool store chains or big box retailers.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Tap water has no CYA in it. So even if there was some residual trapped in the plumbing or filter, it would not be 55.

    Therefore, their automated test is wrong, which is no surprise at all to me. And if CYA is wrong, how can you be sure any of the others are right?

    You have a K2006 test kit, so use it. If you post your own test results, we will be happy to hold your hand and walk you through using poolmath and all the rest to get your pool sparkling. But if you try to combine our methods with pool store methods, you will end up hopelessly confused, broke, and angry.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    "
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Tap water has no CYA in it. So even if there was some residual trapped in the plumbing or filter, it would not be 55.

    Therefore, their automated test is wrong, which is no surprise at all to me. And if CYA is wrong, how can you be sure any of the others are right?

    You have a K2006 test kit, so use it. If you post your own test results, we will be happy to hold your hand and walk you through using poolmath and all the rest to get your pool sparkling. But if you try to combine our methods with pool store methods, you will end up hopelessly confused, broke, and angry.
    ^^^^^^^ What Richard said!!
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Thank you everyone -

    I took my Taylor 2006 test kit and ran the tests twice and came up with the following readings:


    TC: .02
    FC: .02
    pH: 7.9
    TA: 120
    CH: 250
    CYA: 0


    With those numbers, it looks like I need Chlorine, stabalizer and acid. IS this a correct reading of the results? What order should I add those chemicals into the pool?

    Thanks!!
    33,000 Gallon, IG Plaster
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    Pentair Triton II TR100 Sand Filter
    Pentair IntelliFlo Pump
    AutoPilot SWG & Chemical Controller

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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Work on CYA. You have to buy that and it can be added while you are adding any other chemical so.......Put the CYA powder (can be bought at Walmart, lowes, etc) in a sock or two. Hang the sock in front of your return and let it dissolve. You can squeeze the sock to speed it up some. Shoot for under your target as it is easy to add more instead of taking it out.

    Do NOT test for the CYA until next weekend. It takes about a week to show up in the water BUT treat it and all of your chemicals like you have the level you targeted for.

    Next work on PH. Add the MA using great care-------slowly in front of the other return. Wear some sort of eye protection and turn your face away while holding your breath. Run the pump for 30 mins. and retest to make sure you hit your target.

    Next will be FC. It is fine to use the chlorine from Leslie's. It should be fresh and if it is cheaper then go for it. This way you will not have to deal with the empty jugs of bleach.

    I have some links to share with you but am out of time. I will work on them when I get back.

    Kim (remind me to tell you how trusting the pool store and their tests ruined my first pool)
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemyazpool View Post
    Thank you everyone -

    I took my Taylor 2006 test kit and ran the tests twice and came up with the following readings:


    TC: .02
    FC: .02
    pH: 7.9
    TA: 120
    CH: 250
    CYA: 0


    With those numbers, it looks like I need Chlorine, stabalizer and acid. IS this a correct reading of the results? What order should I add those chemicals into the pool?

    Thanks!!
    Excellent.

    Take your pick whether you want to add bleach or acid first and do it. Your pH isn;t so far out of range it's dangerous, but I would deal with it first myself. If there's any doubt about the pool volume, target 7.4 or so on the pH target. With no CYA, traget 2 or 3. It will all be gone in a day anyway until the CYA builds up. Do you know how to use poolmath?

    Okay, so you've added bleach or acid. Next up, stabilizer aka CYA. It gets tied up in an old sock or nylon and suspended in front of a return or set inside the skimmer. Target 40. You will probably want to raise it later, but it's better to shoot low and raise it up later. Lowering it is a PITA as you've experienced. By the time you're done fumbling with that, probably half an hour has elapsed, so it's safe to add the acid or bleach you haven't added yet.

    For the first week, consider your CYA to be 40 or whatever you targeted and maintain the recommended FC for that. After a week, test the CYa and raise it or not depending on what you want to do.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Thanks Richard -

    I do know how to use pool calculator and have put the info in for my pool along with my tests. I will start making adjustments and watch it closely until it all stabilizes. I did the measurements of my pool and did a rough calculation of 33,000 gallons. This did not rake into account the actual slope of the pool into the deep end, just a rough LxWxD of the deep end and the shallow end and plug the numbers into the pool size calculator and add them together. I came up with 33K. Hopefully if I am off by 1 or 2k gallons it won't totally screw up my numbers!

    Thanks Again

    - Richard
    33,000 Gallon, IG Plaster
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    Pentair Triton II TR100 Sand Filter
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    lovemyazpool's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    OK, another quick question. Poolmath is saying to add 171 oz of granular stabilizer and that it will take a week to dissolve. Does that seem like a lot and how do you put that much in a sock? Should I add it all at once, or a little bit at a time over the next few days? I don't want to overshoot.

    Thanks
    33,000 Gallon, IG Plaster
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    Pentair Triton II TR100 Sand Filter
    Pentair IntelliFlo Pump
    AutoPilot SWG & Chemical Controller

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Your rough estimate is fine, I'm sure. Some day, when the pool is sparkling clear and you're bored, you can try using "A Chemical Way of Calculating Pool Volume".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemyazpool View Post
    OK, another quick question. Poolmath is saying to add 171 oz of granular stabilizer and that it will take a week to dissolve. Does that seem like a lot and how do you put that much in a sock? Should I add it all at once, or a little bit at a time over the next few days? I don't want to overshoot.

    Thanks
    That sounds about right for a pool with 0 CYA. Use multiple socks and hang them in front of the returns. You can even put a sock full in one of those blue chlorine floaters. If you add one to the skimmer, be sure to remove it if you turn the pumps off. CYA is acidic (pH can drop to as low as 4.5 in a saturated volume of water) so also make sure that if it is sitting in front of the return that the sock does not contact the plaster surface or any stone or concrete coping, it can and will etch plaster from the acidity.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    lovemyazpool's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    OK -

    Using the Poolcalc I added 1.5qts of 29% muriatic acid (over the deep end return), then about an hour later added 1.5 gallon of clorox regular concentrated bleach. I waited an hour and added 3 gallons of liquid stabilizer to my skimmer.

    How long should I wait to retest pH, CYA (I think someone said 1 week on CYA) and FC/CC?

    Thanks
    33,000 Gallon, IG Plaster
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    Pentair Triton II TR100 Sand Filter
    Pentair IntelliFlo Pump
    AutoPilot SWG & Chemical Controller

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    If you added liquid stabilizer (CYA) it should show with in a hour of being put in. It is the powder CYA that takes about a week to show up.

    Retest PH and FC/CC after the pumps run for 30 mins to mix it all in real good.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    lovemyazpool's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    Thanks Kim -

    I added liquid stabilizer. I will wait a bit and recheck everything and post the results!
    33,000 Gallon, IG Plaster
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    Pentair Triton II TR100 Sand Filter
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    You spent some bucks for the liquid CYA. The powder is cheaper but does take some time to get all the way in.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    In this case, I don't think using liquid stabilizer is a bad idea if you have the $$$ for it. Tying up 10lbs worth of granular CYA in five socks and trying to find various spots in the pool to hang them from is a bit of nuisance.

    However, in the future, if you need to bump up your CYA, you can do it more cheaply by either floating some trichlor pucks in the blue chlorine float or using the sock method. Liquid stabilizer is typically only 30% CYA by weight. If you look at various prices from suppliers, you'll find liquid CYA to be about 2X the cost of granular.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Drain & Refilled Completed - Chemical Questions

    I put mine in two socks at a time and walked around in the pool with the music on and squeezed until it was gone. Did again it was gone! Hey TFP said to put ?? CYA in and it was going in right now! LOL Too cheap to pay for the liquid though.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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