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Thread: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

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    DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Yep a last minute decision. I was set on a 60sf DE filter when one of the PB workers told me the 580sf cartridge filter is a better filter due to it being so much larger? Said something about better flow rates and more gallons per cycle. My pool will be about 16-18k, the 60sf de filter will do 43k gallons in 6 hours the 580 SF cartridge filter does 52k gallons in the same time. Okay but if the if only filters to 10 microns vs 5 microns for DE, isn't the same dirt just being recycl the even if it's filtered more times? Max GPM on the DE filter is 120 on the cartridge filter its 150 GPM max. Now I am confused.
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    First, forget about turnover, it just doesn't mater for a residential pool. Read this: Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time

    Also, "max flow" really isn't important in this case because they are both way over what you would experience in any pool.

    But for California, I would go with a large cartridge filter. Less backwashing/cleaning. Also a cartridge has less resistance to flow (i.e. head loss) so technically more efficient but not because of the filter type but because a DE uses a multi-port valve which has a lot of head loss. With that sized cartridge filter, you should only need to clean the filter no more than once per year. You may not need to go that large either. I have a 20k pool and a 420 sq-ft cartridge and only clean it once a year. I could get away with a 325 sq-ft filter easily and still only clean it once a year.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Titan7 View Post
    Yep a last minute decision. I was set on a 60sf DE filter when one of the PB workers told me the 580sf cartridge filter is a better filter due to it being so much larger? Said something about better flow rates and more gallons per cycle. My pool will be about 16-18k, the 60sf de filter will do 43k gallons in 6 hours the 580 SF cartridge filter does 52k gallons in the same time. Okay but if the if only filters to 10 microns vs 5 microns for DE, isn't the same dirt just being recycl the even if it's filtered more times? Max GPM on the DE filter is 120 on the cartridge filter its 150 GPM max. Now I am confused.

    DE is the best filtration. It filters the smallest particles Cartridge is close but not quite as good. My previous pool had DE and I loved it. My new pool is nearly complete and the only reason i went to cartridge is, i do not have a place to backwash at the new house.
    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    thanks, I called and they are switching out the DEV60SF for the CV580SF Cartridge filter. I spoke with the owner and super, both have the 580SF Jandy Cartridge filters. Yes technically the DE will filter to a smaller level, but the backwashing uses a lot of water and the larger cartridge filter is more efficent on plumbing and uses less energy. The other concern is we live near a freeway and there is dust, not like in the desert but dust still. I was wondering if we would even see the difference a DE filter would make? The consensus seemed to be from two guys with 80 years of combined pool industry experience that the larger cartridge filter was a better balance for the pool and I would most likely only need to clean it once per season with a 15-16k gallon pool. Being in California, if I can save 100-200 gallons of water twice a month from backwashing, that's a lot of water over the years.
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Sound like you made the right choice. FYI- it doesn't take that much water to backwash. I have also been assured by my contractor that the cartridge will be very near de quality. You really only notice the difference in filtration at night when the pool lights are on. My previous pool was crystal clear no particles lit by the lights. I think the new cartridge filters will be very close to the same. I went with a Pentair clean and clean 520.


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Titan7,

    I think you will be happy with either one. In my opinion, backwashing is overrated. I have a couple of pools with DE filters and I break them down and clean them twice a year. I never backwash anymore. At my house, I have a large cartridge filter, which appears will only need to be cleaned twice a year. So far I have only cleaned it once. I did not calculate gallons of water used, but it appears to me that it takes about as much water to clean my four cartridges as it would to backwash a regular DE filter. It took forever... Well, maybe not forever, but just as long as it takes to breakdown a DE filter and put it back together. The main reason I have a cartridge filter is that our local city rules will not allow you to install a DE filter unless it is plumbed directly into the house waste/sewer system. Something that was not too practical for me to do.

    Hopefully my cartridge cleaning ability will get better with practice..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Many cities in CA now require a separation tank for de or sand which is just another thing you have to clean out.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    So do people who have a cartridge filter have 2 cartridges- one to put in while the other is being cleaned?
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlahoutex View Post
    So do people who have a cartridge filter have 2 cartridges- one to put in while the other is being cleaned?
    My PB just recommended this. Just so you can keep the system up while you clean or put them to the side and swap and clean later. Not sure if it is good for them to dry out when they are dirty.

    Plus FYI the big cartridge filters like the one mentioned above and mine actually have 4 cartridges so you would need to buy 4 extra.
    Pool is done! Only took 17 months! - Natural shape in-ground pool: 37x23, 505sq ft, 96ft perimeter, 7ft deep end, 18,950 gallons, tanning ledge, blue surf pebble sheen/luminous blue blend, Belgard coping, 910 sqft paver deck/walkways, retaining walls out the yinyang. Jandy SWG, 2 LED Color lights, VS 2HP Pump, 460sqft cartridge filter, PDA RS P8 controller. My build

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    I don't use an extra set of cartridges. It takes less than an hour to clean them once a year so never saw the need.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Thanks! That's good info to know.
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    I clean my cartridge filter twice per year. Once in the spring and once in the fall.

    Just pull them out, rinse them out on the lawn and reinsert. Turn off the lawn sprinklers for a week.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Yes, I take them out when I have time to clean them. 1 hour + for me. No extra cartridges. Last time I did soak them in TSP overnight but same concept. Drop them back in the next morning.

    Your pump won't be running 24/7 so no worries.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: DE vs cartrige last minute decision

    Good decision to go with Cartridge just because of the water shortage in CA. You'll find that filter does an excellent job of filtering and easy enough to clean.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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