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Thread: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

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    Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    So this may be a silly thing to consider. I currently have separate systems for my inground pool and spa. I am thinking about combining the systems (so I can use my SWCG and acid feed for both) and installing an automation system (likely an Easy Touch). My variable speed pumps (http://www.inyopools.com/Products/00000017069223.htm) are less than 1 year old and evidently not supported by typical automation systems (Intermatic being the only exception). As a result, they will only be able to each run at a single speed. This leads me to consider the following:

    1) run one pump at a low speed (e.g., 1000 RPM) for most of the day, and let the other pump run on a high speed for the rest.
    2) run one pump at a low speed (e.g., 1000 RPM) for the whole day, and let the other pump run on a high speed for a few hours per day.

    Which option is better and how should the pumps be plumbed (i.e., serial or parallel)? In the computer cooling systems world, it seems like serial is the way to go.

    Feel free to also say that all of these options are bad (and yes, I do realize that life would be easier if I just bought an Intelliflow and forgot about these pumps).
    35K gal (inground), plaster, 2.7 HP A. O. Smith's V-Green, sand filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Raypak Heater 406k BTU Cupro-Nickel (high elevation), Polaris 280
    460 gal (inground) Spa, tile, 2.7 HP A. O. Smith's V-Green, sand filter, Raypak Heater 266k BTU Cupro-Nickel (high elevation)

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    What are you trying to gain by using the Easytouch? As you say, these pumps are not externally controllable,, but they appear to be very capable of having each pump run at various speeds at scheduled times. So what do the pump controllers not do for you? One handy feature that I see is that they provide an output when the pump is running which you could use to turn your SWG on or off to keep it from running when the pump is not running. If the issue is that the pumps are outside and you are inside, the pump electronics can be removed from the pump, and with a longer cable, be located in a different location.

    Will the Easytouch even control an AutoPilot SWG???

    I do not have a spa, wish I did, but I thought the SWG output was not normally plumbed directly to the spa as it would deliver too much FC for little water volume of a spa?? But, I'm not much of a water flow expert, so I'll let someone else address that one.

    Just trying to understand the issue...

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    Hey Jim R.,

    So I actually want the Easytouch to do a lot of stuff. The three most important things are to control actuators to switch between pool and spa filtration (and potentially chlorination), control heater(s) and control solar (in the not too distant future). No, the Easytouch will not control (at least very well) an AutoPilot SWG. The SWG will be powered using the "fast" pump and will control itself (whenever it has power). If using the SWG directly in the spa is a bad idea, I can simply chlorinate the pool water and basically flood the spa each day (resulting in virtually identical water chemistry). If I get time, I will put together a diagram of what I am contemplating.

    Thanks!
    35K gal (inground), plaster, 2.7 HP A. O. Smith's V-Green, sand filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Raypak Heater 406k BTU Cupro-Nickel (high elevation), Polaris 280
    460 gal (inground) Spa, tile, 2.7 HP A. O. Smith's V-Green, sand filter, Raypak Heater 266k BTU Cupro-Nickel (high elevation)

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    The only thing I'll add is that you don't want the pumps plumbed in series. If you're determined to run them both, I'd parallel them and run them as you describe in option "1".
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    I do not have a spa, wish I did, but I thought the SWG output was not normally plumbed directly to the spa as it would deliver too much FC for little water volume of a spa?? But, I'm not much of a water flow expert, so I'll let someone else address that one.

    Just trying to understand the issue...

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Jim,

    The EasyTouch in SPA mode runs the SWG at 1/20th the output so that if you have your SWG set to 80% in POOL mode, it drops the output to 4% when you switch to SPA mode. It's a safety feature to ensure you don't sit in over-chlorinated spa water.

    At least that is how it works on my pool with my EasyTouch and IntelliChlor.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    JoyfulNoise,

    Duh!!! I've reset the IntelliChlor "Spa" setting to zero almost every time I've adjusted the "Pool" setting and I never realized what that was for. Might have made more sense if I had a Spa.

    Thanks for the heads-up,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    JL,

    Providing a diagram is a great idea. Suggest a quick one showing how you are currently set up and then another one showing how you envision your new system. Maybe one of the reasons that you have gotten so few responses is that slow people, like me, can't fully understand all the changes you want to make. I bet a diagram would get you some solid advice.

    I see no issues with EasyTouch controlling your valves, but keep in mind you only have four of them. One for Pool operation, one for Spa operation one for solar operation and a spare you can use as you like. I'm not sure the EasyTouch can control more than one heater. It can turn almost anything on/off, but I'd double check if it can operate two independent heaters. Not saying it can't, but I'd make sure first.

    I'm interested in how this all works out. Keep us up to date and take before and after pictures.

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Two pumps at different speeds - Serial or Parellel?

    I don't really understand what the advantages would be. I have two pumps. There are on two separate loops. The main (pool circuit) has the filter, solar panels and SWG. The second (spa circuit) has the NG heater on it. Either loop can be set to draw water from the pool or spa and return water to in-floor heads, pool side return, spa return. The valves (except the solar heating system) are all manual, but about the only time they are usually changed is to heat the pool with th NG heater. Only the second pump will supply the spa jets, but other than that I can draw water from anywhere and return it where I want.

    The only automation I have is a simple remote that activates power to the spa pump and heater. I do however have a solar controller to actuate the valves to the panels and ramp up speed on the main pump.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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