When you had the cover off, did you see a relief valve? I do not have a valve, but just a dual main drain that pulls water out of the pool. Everything else seems the same (gaskets, liner, etc.)
Main drain Leaks...
- Thread starter sgarofalo
- Start date
When you had the cover off, did you see a relief valve? I do not have a valve, but just a dual main drain that pulls water out of the pool. Everything else seems the same (gaskets, liner, etc.)
I should have taken a pic of it. I am not 100% sure it is a relief valve, but I do know that it was another piece of pvc not just a solid plug, that came up about 2" from the bottom of the housing.
Nothing that indicated it could be threaded out or anything. Like a regular plug would have that square to connect a wrench or socket to like i have for the return lines and skimmer baskets. Been trying to look for other main drains online to see if one had something that looked similar to mine. no luck yet but I will keep looking.
Best guess is it looked like some kind of valve though. I wish I worked closer to home so I could go check the water level now. I'd really hate to flush another 15,000 or so gallons of water into the neighborhood.
Nothing that indicated it could be threaded out or anything. Like a regular plug would have that square to connect a wrench or socket to like i have for the return lines and skimmer baskets. Been trying to look for other main drains online to see if one had something that looked similar to mine. no luck yet but I will keep looking.
Best guess is it looked like some kind of valve though. I wish I worked closer to home so I could go check the water level now. I'd really hate to flush another 15,000 or so gallons of water into the neighborhood.
Sgarfofalo:
Think about it logically (and I could be wrong). The MD is an opening where water is being pulled from leading back to the pump, which also includes the skimmers. If there is a valve there, it would not be the best design given that your pool could empty. The MD should be buried in the concrete mix (sometimes vermiculite) and then the MD is completely sealed with gaskets, the liner, screws and the cap. Where could a MD possibly pick up ground water is beyond my knowledge. When ground water rises, if enough pressure is behind the liner, you will see wrinkles, bubbles and possibly the liner could float. Some people have the same issue year after year until the ground water settles.
If the plumbing (piping) of the MD was broken, you will not have any water when you get home later. If it is the MD, I am guessing that the gasket(s) where the liner meets along with the screws is the problem and nothing else. This is why I would have not filled up the pool until the leak completely stopped. Once it stops, you know the problem is above the water line. If the pool completely empties, then clearly it is the MD. If this is the case, by you plugging the MD, the leak should have stopped. If the leak has not stopped, then it is either the gasket(s) around the MD or something in the liner near where the water stopped or emptied. Please tell me where the water level is when you get home.
Swimming Pool Hydrostatic Relief Valve - YouTube
This explains that valve well. It is a one way valve and possibly could have been stuck open (maybe)
Hydrostatic Valve
Like any one way valves, they have the possibility of leaking, get stuck, etc. Do you have high water tables where you live? If indeed you have a valve and it is in need of repair, the procedure seems pretty straight forward. I personally would call a professional at this point.
Luckily, I do not and am over 60' higher then the first home on the block and there is only 12 homes in the whole development, making the conditions ideal. I actually took a close look at my MD and they can be plugged in the event one breaks underground (hopefully not).
Think about it logically (and I could be wrong). The MD is an opening where water is being pulled from leading back to the pump, which also includes the skimmers. If there is a valve there, it would not be the best design given that your pool could empty. The MD should be buried in the concrete mix (sometimes vermiculite) and then the MD is completely sealed with gaskets, the liner, screws and the cap. Where could a MD possibly pick up ground water is beyond my knowledge. When ground water rises, if enough pressure is behind the liner, you will see wrinkles, bubbles and possibly the liner could float. Some people have the same issue year after year until the ground water settles.
If the plumbing (piping) of the MD was broken, you will not have any water when you get home later. If it is the MD, I am guessing that the gasket(s) where the liner meets along with the screws is the problem and nothing else. This is why I would have not filled up the pool until the leak completely stopped. Once it stops, you know the problem is above the water line. If the pool completely empties, then clearly it is the MD. If this is the case, by you plugging the MD, the leak should have stopped. If the leak has not stopped, then it is either the gasket(s) around the MD or something in the liner near where the water stopped or emptied. Please tell me where the water level is when you get home.
Swimming Pool Hydrostatic Relief Valve - YouTube
This explains that valve well. It is a one way valve and possibly could have been stuck open (maybe)
Hydrostatic Valve
Like any one way valves, they have the possibility of leaking, get stuck, etc. Do you have high water tables where you live? If indeed you have a valve and it is in need of repair, the procedure seems pretty straight forward. I personally would call a professional at this point.
Luckily, I do not and am over 60' higher then the first home on the block and there is only 12 homes in the whole development, making the conditions ideal. I actually took a close look at my MD and they can be plugged in the event one breaks underground (hopefully not).
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your logic sounds right to me!
I did not see any bubbles, wrinkles or anything to that nature on the bottom of the pool, or around the main drain.
When I removed the cover that entire housing stayed firmly in place which seemed normal. No leaks or anything all summer long when we had the pool running normally since last May till now.
Fingers crossed, but I will definitely be checking the water level tonight as soon as I get home.
I did not see any bubbles, wrinkles or anything to that nature on the bottom of the pool, or around the main drain.
When I removed the cover that entire housing stayed firmly in place which seemed normal. No leaks or anything all summer long when we had the pool running normally since last May till now.
Fingers crossed, but I will definitely be checking the water level tonight as soon as I get home.
DARN THE BAD LUCK!
Apparently my leak is not done yet, thanks for sticking with me Catanzaro.
Water level was above the deep end drop off when I got home (to dark for pics) last night and this morning it was at about the same level as the pic I posted yesterday that was marked " Water level next morning".
Couldn't stay home from work today, but I am going to look around at a couple pool supply stores and see if anyone locally sells the leak detection dye and see if I can tell if it is coming from around the gasket like you mentioned, or if the water is low enough by then near one of the two openings inside the housing under the screen.
Apparently my leak is not done yet, thanks for sticking with me Catanzaro.
Water level was above the deep end drop off when I got home (to dark for pics) last night and this morning it was at about the same level as the pic I posted yesterday that was marked " Water level next morning".
Couldn't stay home from work today, but I am going to look around at a couple pool supply stores and see if anyone locally sells the leak detection dye and see if I can tell if it is coming from around the gasket like you mentioned, or if the water is low enough by then near one of the two openings inside the housing under the screen.
Steve:
Let the water go as far down as possible until it stops. Then we can go from there.
Please take a lot of pictures so I can see what you are working with. As I mentioned previously, you are either leaking at the gasket of the MD or it is possible that the hydrostatic relief valve (if you have one) is bad. Replacing the valve will not be difficult if there is no water in the pool.
At this time, it may be in your best interest to call a few pool professionals, especially the liner company to come out and inspect the liner and gaskets. If you have a valve, chances are that this is your problem, but only time will tell.
Let the water go as far down as possible until it stops. Then we can go from there.
Please take a lot of pictures so I can see what you are working with. As I mentioned previously, you are either leaking at the gasket of the MD or it is possible that the hydrostatic relief valve (if you have one) is bad. Replacing the valve will not be difficult if there is no water in the pool.
At this time, it may be in your best interest to call a few pool professionals, especially the liner company to come out and inspect the liner and gaskets. If you have a valve, chances are that this is your problem, but only time will tell.
Thanks, I will defintely let it go down as far as possible. I thought it was last time but maybe it was not complete yet. Still had about 7 inches of water left when I attempted to plug.
I've got a call into one pool place now, and will see if I can get the liner company out to inspect that as well.
I've got a call into one pool place now, and will see if I can get the liner company out to inspect that as well.
Pool continues to drain, not sure why but it appears to be losing water slower than it did prior to me plugging the one line to the pump.
Calling in the pros to hopefully come out today or tomorrow for some insight into what is causing it.
Once I get in to check things out I will take some pics and keep you guys updated.
Keep your fingers crossed its not to bad of an ordeal.
Calling in the pros to hopefully come out today or tomorrow for some insight into what is causing it.
Once I get in to check things out I will take some pics and keep you guys updated.
Keep your fingers crossed its not to bad of an ordeal.
Down to about 10 inches or so as of just now. I'd say it dropped about another 4 feet since yesterday about this time.
I'm working from home this afternoon so I will be pulling the screen off the main drain and taking some pics. Also going to try and use some dye to see if I can determine where it is going to.
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Local pool guy said he will be over about noon tomorrow to help as well.
I'm working from home this afternoon so I will be pulling the screen off the main drain and taking some pics. Also going to try and use some dye to see if I can determine where it is going to.
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Local pool guy said he will be over about noon tomorrow to help as well.
It is either the main drain, or the gasket/liner around the main drain. You are down to the bottom and can not go any further. You could inspect the liner, but I doubt you would be loosing water this fast. Chances are that it is the main drain and you could have a hydrostatic valve. Keep me posted!
I think I found it!!!
Here's a pic of the main drain after pulling the cover off.
Used some dye (blue food coloring) and it was pulling water into that valve as quick as I could squirt it out! I pushed down on it and sure enough it popped closed.
Marked where the water level is at and going to see if it drops at all over the next few hours. Then remove the main drain plug that I put in there and double check again.
If it holds over night I'll fill in another foot or so of water and see if it holds before refilling again.
Here's a pic of the main drain after pulling the cover off.
Used some dye (blue food coloring) and it was pulling water into that valve as quick as I could squirt it out! I pushed down on it and sure enough it popped closed.
Marked where the water level is at and going to see if it drops at all over the next few hours. Then remove the main drain plug that I put in there and double check again.
If it holds over night I'll fill in another foot or so of water and see if it holds before refilling again.
This is the same valve that is on the bottom of my housing same markings and everything!
http://www.poolpartsonline.com/p-51041-main-drain-hydrostatic-relief-valve-sp1056-opt-3820-0.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ShoppingFeed&utm_term=ProductListingAds&utm_content=AllProducts&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsZayBRCrioKRkYetvc0BEiQAI70-A6hFe1-pv3g-IVLumOvVAaYwLcXGo2RqulCAXHQcRcsaAqVL8P8HAQ
http://www.poolpartsonline.com/p-51041-main-drain-hydrostatic-relief-valve-sp1056-opt-3820-0.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ShoppingFeed&utm_term=ProductListingAds&utm_content=AllProducts&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsZayBRCrioKRkYetvc0BEiQAI70-A6hFe1-pv3g-IVLumOvVAaYwLcXGo2RqulCAXHQcRcsaAqVL8P8HAQ
It was a busy day yesterday and I could not respond back. Well at this point, you clearly know that the problem is the Hydrostatic Valve (Wow, a $14 part). Now, you have to make a decision on what to do next.
1) You could purchase a new valve and install it yourself. Because of the cost, I would purchase second one and keep as a spare for down the road.
2) You could have the professionals install a new valve (I would do this myself if you decide to keep the valve in tact). Hopefully the new valve will work like it should and you will not run into this problem.
3) You could remove the valve (which probably requires a special type of tool) based on the picture and close it off completely. If you have high water tables, maybe this would not be the best idea. If this was just a secondary precaution and you do not have high water tables (speak with neighbors who have pools to determine if they have one of these valves in their pools) and if you are the only one, maybe closing the valve off is the best idea. If you close it off, I would use more than just Teflon tape and a plug (maybe a glue of some sort). Plumbing stores should have it.
At this point, you have to make a decision to get the pool back into shape. Keep me posted!
1) You could purchase a new valve and install it yourself. Because of the cost, I would purchase second one and keep as a spare for down the road.
2) You could have the professionals install a new valve (I would do this myself if you decide to keep the valve in tact). Hopefully the new valve will work like it should and you will not run into this problem.
3) You could remove the valve (which probably requires a special type of tool) based on the picture and close it off completely. If you have high water tables, maybe this would not be the best idea. If this was just a secondary precaution and you do not have high water tables (speak with neighbors who have pools to determine if they have one of these valves in their pools) and if you are the only one, maybe closing the valve off is the best idea. If you close it off, I would use more than just Teflon tape and a plug (maybe a glue of some sort). Plumbing stores should have it.
At this point, you have to make a decision to get the pool back into shape. Keep me posted!
Thanks!
Water held over night above the level where it previously drained to.
Went in again this morning and sure enough that valve is fairly easy to pull up and close. Must have been the suction of the pump that pulled it open and held it shut.
I have a local pool guy coming today around noon as well.
Quick question, if I were to pull this valve open, should it close on its own? I'm defintely getting another one as a spare and will have the local guy determine the current "state" of this one.
Water held over night above the level where it previously drained to.
Went in again this morning and sure enough that valve is fairly easy to pull up and close. Must have been the suction of the pump that pulled it open and held it shut.
I have a local pool guy coming today around noon as well.
Quick question, if I were to pull this valve open, should it close on its own? I'm defintely getting another one as a spare and will have the local guy determine the current "state" of this one.
I am not 100% sure, but logic would tell you that if water pressure opened the valve so water could fill up in the pool, once this pressure is exerted, then clearly the pressure of the pool water would close it as well and keep it sealed. Once it seals, and you have no further water loss, the valve should not open unless you have a tremendous amount of pressure behind it. Now you know the situation and next time you can put on a pair of goggles and go down and close it manually if it becomes stuck. I would ask the pool company when they show up what their experience has been with this type of situation, etc., and if it is common in your area, that is a lot of people have hydrostatic valves in their swimming pools.
If indeed you have high water tables and want to close off the valve (long term), you may want to call in a drainage specialist. I have seen companies create dry wells with crushed stone and pumps (just like basements) to keep water out from the base of the pools. Again, I do not know your particular situation.
Sorry I did not see this sooner. I had a friend that had a similar thing happen to him. He was running his pump through the main drain only and leaves clogged up the main drain creating a vacuum effect that raised the hydrostatic valve. The springs in the valve were either compromised by this vacuum effect or debris got underneath the valve resulting in it not sealing back once the pump was turned off. His pool leaked for a while until he finally drained it and realized it was the hydrostatic relief valve. I would definitely replace the valve and not risk the springs being compromised.
cwmoody:
Interesting one. Maybe this was the culprit all along. I only have my MD slightly open and use the skimmers as the main source. Luckily, I do not have a valve in my situation.
Interesting one. Maybe this was the culprit all along. I only have my MD slightly open and use the skimmers as the main source. Luckily, I do not have a valve in my situation.
Thanks guys.
That is exactly what happened. I was able to replicate the massive water loss by simply opening the valve manually and watching the dye (blue foodcoloring) fly down the hole.
I did speak with a local pool builder and he thinks the same thing. The suction of the pump was great enough to pull the valve open, he thinks that when that happened a piece of debris (rock, pebble, or dirt) lodged in the valve keeping it in the up position.
He also knew my area well and did confirm that below about 3 feet of actual top soil it is VERY sandy where we live and with the pond down hill and about 2 houses away all the water drained there. He does have another valve ready and waiting if needed, but at this point I was able to fill the pool to the closing level and it held for the past 36 hours so I think I am safe through the winter.
If it does happen again he said it would be no problem to replace it with the water in the pool just chilly and a good breath of air
WHEW hopefully this fiasco can help someone else isolate a similar problem long before filling and refilling a pool twice!
That is exactly what happened. I was able to replicate the massive water loss by simply opening the valve manually and watching the dye (blue foodcoloring) fly down the hole.
I did speak with a local pool builder and he thinks the same thing. The suction of the pump was great enough to pull the valve open, he thinks that when that happened a piece of debris (rock, pebble, or dirt) lodged in the valve keeping it in the up position.
He also knew my area well and did confirm that below about 3 feet of actual top soil it is VERY sandy where we live and with the pond down hill and about 2 houses away all the water drained there. He does have another valve ready and waiting if needed, but at this point I was able to fill the pool to the closing level and it held for the past 36 hours so I think I am safe through the winter.
If it does happen again he said it would be no problem to replace it with the water in the pool just chilly and a good breath of air
WHEW hopefully this fiasco can help someone else isolate a similar problem long before filling and refilling a pool twice!
Which suction are you referring to? And is the PB stating that there is a high water table issue where you are at?
At least for now, it appears that you have solved the problem. Take Care!