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Thread: DE filter

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    DE filter

    I have a cartridge filter pump and because of the decorative rock formations around our pool and the fact that we have two dogs that swim in the pool a lot, I would like to switch to a DE filter so that I can backwash. I don't know if it's relevant, but I use only 10% liquid chlorine. I don't know the difference between a quad DE filter and a DE filter? And are there any recommended brands? We are in Houston Texas.
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    Beach entry
    Pebble Tec
    Rock formation slide

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    Re: DE filter

    A quad DE is similar to a cartridge but you use DE as the filter media. It coats the pleat material.
    A regular DE filter has grids with 'socks' over them. You use DE as a filter media here also, but the DE coats the socks.

    Liquid chlorine is one of the ways of chlorinating your pool. that we endorse. The other is plain 8.25% bleach.

    As far as the dogs go, you might consider purchasing 'skimmer' socks that go on the skimmer basket. Work great for keeping things like dog hair and pine needles and other debris out of the pump and filter. Just have to check them every once and a while and clean them out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There are a few folks here that have Quad DE filters, so you should get some direct answers soon.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: DE filter

    If you're looking for a quad DE filter, this is the on you want:

    http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/quaddeDS.pdf

    I have the 60 model and it is great.
    20x40 in-ground Bella Blue Pebble Fina pool w/diving board, 1 HP Hayward Superpump, Raypak RP2100 335k BTU NG mV heater, Pentair Quad DE 60 filter, Pentair 261173 multi-port valve, Stenner 45MPHP10 pump w/15 gal tank, Intermatic ET1125CR dual electronic timer, 1.5" lines, two skimmers w/socks, Poolskim, vacuum line, ColorQ Pro 7 kit, TF-100 kit, speedstir, 2 froglogs, Dolphin Discovery Robot. Wine is the answer, what was the question?

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    Re: DE filter

    I have a much simpler and cheaper solution to the problem of dog hair. You can strain all the dog hair out of the water right at your skimmer before the water gets to the filter. Just line the skimmer with one of these.
    Amazon.com: Disposable Hair Net, Spun-Bonded Polypropylene, White, 100 per Bag: Office Products

    At $6.00 per hundred, you just pull them out, throw away and put a new one in. They filter fine enough to remove all the hair, just be sure to change them frequently.

    If you do decide to change out the filter, I would recommend a sand filter. Of the three types of filters, DE is the one that requires the most maintenance time. Back flushing and recharging takes a bit of time, and you do occasionally have to do a complete tear-down cleaning. With sand, it's back flush, rinse and run. Sand is the easiest filter to maintain, DE is the hardest. The only advantage to DE is the finer particle filtration. If you don't like your cartridge, you are going to hate DE.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: DE filter

    Pre-filtering a DE filter is a good idea. Switching to DE because your pool environment gets a lot of dirt is NOT a good idea.

    The best filter for a dirty environment is sand. DE will give you great filtration but it does not handle a heavier load like sand will.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: DE filter

    Agree with above comments. Try skimmer socks first. I use skimmer socks and I trap a lot of the finer debris before it gets to my QuadDE filter.

    If you do get a DE filter, I love my QuadDE from Pentair and it's super easy to disassemble, clean and reassemble. Backwashing is ok, just make sure you have a proper place for the backwash water to go as you will be flushing spent DE out with the water. Check local codes too, some jurisdictions either outlaw DE filters entirely or require the use of separation tanks to collect spent DE.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: DE filter

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Pre-filtering a DE filter is a good idea. Switching to DE because your pool environment gets a lot of dirt is NOT a good idea.

    The best filter for a dirty environment is sand. DE will give you great filtration but it does not handle a heavier load like sand will.
    I have to respectfully disagree with the post above. Sand provides the least filtration of the 3 filter types. Sand handles larger particle size down to (20 microns) well but small particle size soil etc get by a sand filter. Hence you can see small particles suspended in the water at night when the light is on. Cartridge filters can handle particle size down to 5 microns and DE can catch particles down to 3 microns.

    My previous pool had a DE filter and I loved it, water was always crystal clear even at night. And after a large dust storm, the pool would be clean in about 8 hours. And Phoenix gets some massive dust storms. I have a good friend that has a sand filter and it does not handle the dirt well at all, you can see small particles floating at night. He added some de to his sand filter and it has helped some but it is still not great.

    I am currently building a new pool at a new house and I am going cartridge, only because I will not have a good backwash set up without spending a lot of money.

    If you have a good backwash setup, de is the best. The only downside to de is the maintenance and back washing




    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: DE filter

    There's a difference between particle filtration size and filter capacity. While it is true that sand filters have the least particle size filtration, they have a much larger filter capacity (volume of filtered material trapped in the filter media) than cartridge or DE filters. Sand filters also typically have better flow characteristics upon loading (constant flow with loading) whereas cartridge and DE filters tend to lose flow faster. Cartridge and DE filters make up for these deficiencies by simply increasing the filtration area of their media (grids or cartridges) but this results in a substantially larger unit size when you compare properly sized filters for a given pool size. Small amounts of DE can be added to sand filters to improve their particle size filtration without substantially affecting flow.

    So if you live in an area with a wide range of debris sizes and lots of overall debris, then a sand filter can be the better option as it reduces the need to constantly backwash de filters or clean cartridge style filters. I once severely clogged up my DE filter by not having a leaf canister on my suction side cleaner. I not only plugged up my filter very rapidly (pressure rose 25% in less than a week, DE layer was completely embedded with mesquite leaves and needles) when the mesquite leaves started to fall but I also plugged my suction line with mesquite needles and leaves and it required me blowing out the line with compressed air to get rid of the clog. So pre-filtering debris at the skimmer or suction-side cleaner is a good practice in general.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: DE filter

    Yes I agree but my de kept up with massive amounts of dust and dirt with no problems. Like I said it's the maintenance aspect, you have to backwash more during summer monsoons. DE is the best, in my opinion for volume and particle size


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: DE filter

    The OP was considering changing to DE due to an issue with dogs using the pool. Sand filter will remove dog hair quite well, and won't clog and need cleaning near as often as DE or cartridge. That's all I was saying.

    But a cheaper and easier solution is to just remove dog hair at the skimmer. I've discovered that the disposable hair nets, like food service worker wear, are the best skimmer liner I have ever used. They don't soak up oils like some of the skimmer socks, but they do strain out all but the very finest sand and debris. Use once and toss, only $6 for 100.
    Amazon.com: Disposable Hair Net, Spun-Bonded Polypropylene, White, 100 per Bag: Office Products

    Don't get me wrong, I love my DE filter, but they do require a lot more maintenance time. Ask anyone who has had to clear a pool with a DE filter after an algae bloom. There is a reason I use something in my skimmers to strain out debris, I don't want to be cleaning the filter as often as a DE filter would require if I didn't.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: DE filter

    Yes I agree but my de kept up with massive amounts of dust and dirt with no problems.
    Perhaps so for you. Perhaps Sand would have done even better. DE and Cartridges both capture smaller sizes than sand. That said, you can't see them so there is little point.

    Richard320 posted something important in another thread this AM......
    Any filter that's working properly will strain out anything big enough to see with the naked eye.
    There is more than one thread on the forum describing the painful SLAM process when you have a really dirty pool and a DE filter. Sand simply handles large amounts of debris better than the other two types. Each has it's advantages and to believe one type is CLEARLY superior in all aspects simply doesn'y work.

    Last, I like to keep this picture close by....taken through approx. 7 feet of water, this pool is filtered by sand....nothing more.....and the sand is approaching ten years old. Yes, that is a small leaf on top of the water and it's shadow down by the robot

    clear water.JPG
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: DE filter

    If you take the same picture at night, with the pool light light, you will see what I was referring too. Everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to that. Based on my own experiences, previous DE owner in an area with massive amounts of dust and dirt and two Labrador retrievers, my DE did an amazing job at cleaning. I have friends with a sand filter and it does not even come close.


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: DE filter

    I keep thinking about those huge aquariums folks go into and can see the sand filters they use to keep those finicky fish happy.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: DE filter

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
    I have a much simpler and cheaper solution to the problem of dog hair. You can strain all the dog hair out of the water right at your skimmer before the water gets to the filter. Just line the skimmer with one of these.
    Amazon.com: Disposable Hair Net, Spun-Bonded Polypropylene, White, 100 per Bag: Office Products

    At $6.00 per hundred, you just pull them out, throw away and put a new one in. They filter fine enough to remove all the hair, just be sure to change them frequently.

    If you do decide to change out the filter, I would recommend a sand filter. Of the three types of filters, DE is the one that requires the most maintenance time. Back flushing and recharging takes a bit of time, and you do occasionally have to do a complete tear-down cleaning. With sand, it's back flush, rinse and run. Sand is the easiest filter to maintain, DE is the hardest. The only advantage to DE is the finer particle filtration. If you don't like your cartridge, you are going to hate DE.
    Just ordered some of these. How do you install them on your skimmer basket? Would hate for one these to get loose and plug my filter basket input.
    38000 Gal, IG, Plaster, 20' x 40' x 10', Attached Raised Spa, Intelliflo VS 3 HP (011018), Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Raypak (Rheem) 400,000 BTU (407a low Nox), Easy Touch 8 upgrade, Screenlogic 2 with wireless, IS-4 Spa Side Remote, Stenner 45MPHP10 w/15 gal tank, Intellibrite 5g (3), Dolphin Triton Plus robot with PRO remote, Water Tech Catfish handheld vacuum for spa, TF100 with SpeedStir.

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    Re: DE filter

    They go in the skimmer baskets, and there is an elastic band around the edge that will hold them in place. Since they are lining the inside of the skimmer basket, if it came loose it would just be there sitting inside the basket. There would be no way for it to get into the plumbing.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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