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Thread: Pool cloudy

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    Pool cloudy

    My pool has never been clear since the moment I added any chemical to it. I have slammed for weeks at a time to no avail, I have passed OCLT but alas it is not meant to be.

    First off my pool is green but that is due to metals in the water I suspect as when I use a metal sequestrant the pool will become blue but it seems each time I do it it works less. Last time the blue (still cloudy) worked for about 2 days.

    I would like to focus on getting the pool clear even if it will have a green tint. (I can see the bottom but not very well) I went to my parents house over the weekend and there pool is filled with leaves and the pool water was clear and blue and all they do is add algaecide and shock and other chemicals from the pool store. I am considering draining all the water and getting filled with pool water but it is a semi inground and the backfill material hasnt had proper time to compact.

    Here are my numbers from my tf100 test kit
    (yes fc is high, I was out of town and had the filter and SWG running the whole weekend)

    FC 15
    CC 0
    ph 7.8
    CH 25
    TA 90
    CYA 20 (low yes) ran out of stabilizer, im going to the store today

    I try to vaccuum the pool twice weekly but most of the time I feel like im wasting my time as the pool has nothing in it.

    I thought maybe it was channelled sand so I spent yesterday opening up the filter and checking that. (not channelled) than I cleaned out the sand since I had the top off doing the hose method (did seem very dirty).

    This is my first year owning a pool. Is there some chemicals I can get from the store that will aid in clarification. Im losing my mind. I feel like ive done all the things asked of for a good pool owner using the TFPC and I just want 1 day of sparkling water. Please help.
    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    The answer to your issue is a very simple one. SLaM. I see you didn't list your pH. You'll need that to be down around 7.2 before you start the SLaM.
    Then you just use Pool Math to find out how much bleach to put in to get to your target FC. This chart will tell you the FC level for what CYA level you target. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    The answer to your issue is a very simple one. SLaM. I see you didn't list your pH. You'll need that to be down around 7.2 before you start the SLaM.
    Then you just use Pool Math to find out how much bleach to put in to get to your target FC. This chart will tell you the FC level for what CYA level you target. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
    I have slammed it for weeks at a time before, I have passed OCLT three nights in a row, yet the pool is green and cloudy. Should I slam for months at a time? I will do whatever you guys think necessary and if that means slam it for the next 6 months than I will. But in no time during my almost month long slam did the pool show ANY signs of clearing.

    Just got back from the pool store their tests showed no trace of copper or iron although they werent sure how accurate those tests are.
    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Guess we need pictures. Then maybe we'll know what we are dealing with.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    The pool does look worse than over the summer so I may try a slam but since that didnt work before I am skeptical but I am holding off on adding the cya since a slam may be in order.

    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    If you SLAMed properly before, you must have a filtration issue if it never gained clarity. Are you running with the multiport set on Filter, not Bypass? Have you tried adding DE to your sand filter?
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Pool cloudy

    I would bump the CYA up just a little. 20 is the lowest the test goes and you might be lower then that. I would target 40 just to be sure it shows on the test...
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    If you SLAMed properly before, you must have a filtration issue if it never gained clarity. Are you running with the multiport set on Filter, not Bypass? Have you tried adding DE to your sand filter?
    I tried adding de to the filter but I only did it for a few days because im lazy but I should go through with that more thoroughly. I suspected a filtration issue which is why I opened up the sand filter, emptied all of the sand and inspected the laterals, all looked fine with no clogs. I guess I should have replaced with fresh sand but sand is supposedly good for years and this hasnt even been 6 months yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    At this point I am raising the cya slightly, allowing the fc to drop to below 10 so i can properly lower ph to 7.2 in preparation for the slam.
    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Your sand is NOT in need of changing, so get that thought outta your head

    Were you using fresh, high quality bleach or liquid chlorine only during your SLAM? Were you running your filter 24/7 during the SLAM? How often were you re-dosing the pool to keep the FC up to SLAM level?? Was your CYA level higher before??

    Something is wonky here and we'll all help you get to the bottom of it.
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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Your sand is NOT in need of changing, so get that thought outta your head

    Were you using fresh, high quality bleach or liquid chlorine only during your SLAM? Were you running your filter 24/7 during the SLAM? How often were you re-dosing the pool to keep the FC up to SLAM level?? Was your CYA level higher before??

    Something is wonky here and we'll all help you get to the bottom of it.
    I was using bleach from the grocery store, but I learned to get the freshest they had by reading the date. I was running my filter 24/7, and I was erring on the high side of bleach dosing to ensure I stayed above the limit. I tested 2-3 times a day. I think the cya was around 20-30 as I was doing this before I converted to salt. It is possible that my ph was not down to 7.2 when I did the slam however. Thats the only mistake I can think of.
    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Just to make sure, did you have the SWG off for the OCLT?

    Have you been brushing regularly?
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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Straight6tt -- first off, your signature says you have a salt water generator - SWG. When did you change to salt? Had you ever raised your cya when you changed to salt?

    Once clear and returning to swg use, you're going to want to be sure to keep your cya closer to 70 in order for the swg cell to keep up with demand. Considering this...some of your cloudiness may have been nascent algae...but we can't rule out that your filter isn't keeping up with sequestrant action.

    Secondly, are you on well water re the green? Have you tested positive for staining, and does vitamin c remove the staining? (On the vinyl I mean....the store metal tests don't always work if the metal is sequestered)

    What kind of metal sequestrant did you use, and did you ever mix types. Eg. Jacks magic and metal magic are basically the same "type" of sequestrant and won't battle...but if you used a different component type and then used another, the reaction can cause cloudiness. Also, even if you didn't mix types, sequestrant can leave the water cloudy for a few days until the filter clears out what its combined with.

    Lastly, if you suspect you also have filtration issues PLUS tinting trouble from metals, you may find the Slimebag (The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water. ) with a return fitting helpful on both fronts...many have reported success stopping / clearing water tint from metals with the slimebag, if, for example, on well with heavy iron.

    If you do have metals, in case you don't know, its shocking/slamming that tints the color via oxidizing the metal....so in a perfect world, its ultimately more helpful to stay ahead on your FC:cya ratio so that you never need to Slam

    That said, using sequestrant requires low initial FC to work on application, and you cannot shock/slam for at least a week after using.

    So let us know a bit more info to help us sort the why and ergo the HOW

    A good start would be to do the OCLT tonight and report back if you pass -- with metal, you don't want to Slam unless you know for sure you need to. The OCLT will tell the tale...but Make sure your FC is 10 or higher and you only test in dark.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Pool cloudy

    From the pics, I do not believe metal in your water has ANYTHING to do with the murkiness. I would ignore ANY pursuit of a metals issue (at least for now)

    You first reported this issue back in August. Please help 3 week old pool and its green but the numbers look good.

    The problem then was that you had been following TFP methods for more than a month and it wasn't helping. Something has to change for you to get your pool clear but I don't know what that is.

    I'll summarize some points to keep in mind.

    1. The first step in the SLAM process is to kill ALL the organics with constant high doses of chlorine.

    2. Simultaneously, you constantly run the pump, filtering the dead organics (and anything else) from your pool

    That's it. really a simple process but a lot can go wrong. As before, I can't see anything you are overlooking so I can't offer any advice as to why your pool doesn't clear when it does for thousands of others. I can only suggest the same things as before and none apparently worked.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Straight6tt:

    How often do you backwash?

    The reason why I ask is that my neighbor has a tendency to backwash every time he vacuums (This is weekly). His water is never crystal clear, but not as bad as your picture. It appears you have a good sand filter and pump. Can you give us an idea on how often you vacuum and backwash. If you maintained your levels for 2 weeks and did not backwash (and your pool was not clear), then I would say something is wrong. I backwashed the first day the pool was opened and then 5 months later when pool was closed.

    What I believe is that your FC levels are not consistent with the SWG and you could very well have a filtration issue. You have a 2 speed pump. Maybe it is best to keep the setting on the highest. How many hours per day do you run your pump?

    Constant brushing along with the TFP methodology should work. There is always that exception.
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    Re: Pool cloudy

    The pump is oversized for the filter. You're basically pushing the finer particles through the sand. Backwash then add two pounds of de or filter fiber through the skimmer with the pump on low. Keep the pump on low and backwash as needed. Add more de or filter fiber after backwashing. Complete a full Slam. Watch the returns carefully for at least a minute after adding de or filter fiber to see if any bypasses the filter. If you get a big cloud of de out of the returns, then there is a problem with the filter.

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by Swampwoman View Post
    Straight6tt -- first off, your signature says you have a salt water generator - SWG. When did you change to salt? Had you ever raised your cya when you changed to salt?

    Once clear and returning to swg use, you're going to want to be sure to keep your cya closer to 70 in order for the swg cell to keep up with demand. Considering this...some of your cloudiness may have been nascent algae...but we can't rule out that your filter isn't keeping up with sequestrant action.

    Secondly, are you on well water re the green? Have you tested positive for staining, and does vitamin c remove the staining? (On the vinyl I mean....the store metal tests don't always work if the metal is sequestered)

    What kind of metal sequestrant did you use, and did you ever mix types. Eg. Jacks magic and metal magic are basically the same "type" of sequestrant and won't battle...but if you used a different component type and then used another, the reaction can cause cloudiness. Also, even if you didn't mix types, sequestrant can leave the water cloudy for a few days until the filter clears out what its combined with.

    Lastly, if you suspect you also have filtration issues PLUS tinting trouble from metals, you may find the Slimebag (The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water. ) with a return fitting helpful on both fronts...many have reported success stopping / clearing water tint from metals with the slimebag, if, for example, on well with heavy iron.

    If you do have metals, in case you don't know, its shocking/slamming that tints the color via oxidizing the metal....so in a perfect world, its ultimately more helpful to stay ahead on your FC:cya ratio so that you never need to Slam

    That said, using sequestrant requires low initial FC to work on application, and you cannot shock/slam for at least a week after using.

    So let us know a bit more info to help us sort the why and ergo the HOW

    A good start would be to do the OCLT tonight and report back if you pass -- with metal, you don't want to Slam unless you know for sure you need to. The OCLT will tell the tale...but Make sure your FC is 10 or higher and you only test in dark.

    My cya has never been close to 70, but I am added some last week and will begin adding some weekly to get to the desired level. As far as sequestrant, I have used a product called metal out, metal wizard, and Jacks Purple. All have shown some improvement to the water but it did not last. I have had a tough time keeping the FC down low enough with the SWG. I am going to try running the SWG far less than I do now. Ever since I have had the pool the water has been above optimal FC level so I want to focus on nailing that down and see if any water improvement occurs.

    I also will be adding DE as needed to the filter to see if that clears the water at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    Straight6tt:

    How often do you backwash?

    The reason why I ask is that my neighbor has a tendency to backwash every time he vacuums (This is weekly). His water is never crystal clear, but not as bad as your picture. It appears you have a good sand filter and pump. Can you give us an idea on how often you vacuum and backwash. If you maintained your levels for 2 weeks and did not backwash (and your pool was not clear), then I would say something is wrong. I backwashed the first day the pool was opened and then 5 months later when pool was closed.

    What I believe is that your FC levels are not consistent with the SWG and you could very well have a filtration issue. You have a 2 speed pump. Maybe it is best to keep the setting on the highest. How many hours per day do you run your pump?

    Constant brushing along with the TFP methodology should work. There is always that exception.
    I have been backwashing weekly as I thought that was the problem with the pool not filtering properly but I will stop that practice. I usually run the pump 12 hours a day, but sometimes 24 hours...neither makes any difference in the clarity of the water.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    The pump is oversized for the filter. You're basically pushing the finer particles through the sand. Backwash then add two pounds of de or filter fiber through the skimmer with the pump on low. Keep the pump on low and backwash as needed. Add more de or filter fiber after backwashing. Complete a full Slam. Watch the returns carefully for at least a minute after adding de or filter fiber to see if any bypasses the filter. If you get a big cloud of de out of the returns, then there is a problem with the filter.
    I have added DE to the filter and have not seen any come back out through the return yet. On low speed setting the gauge barely registers any PSI so its difficult to gauge when it might need backwashing but if you think that will do a better job filtering than I will go that route.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Its fall so the leaves are falling into the pool so I usually have to vacuum every 4 days or so.
    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight6tt View Post
    I tried adding de to the filter but I only did it for a few days because im lazy but I should go through with that more thoroughly.
    Did you use FOOD GRADE DE or DE for pool use?

    If you used FOOD GRADE that will cloud the water...
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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by borjis View Post
    Did you use FOOD GRADE DE or DE for pool use?

    If you used FOOD GRADE that will cloud the water...
    I used the stuff for pools.
    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Pool cloudy

    Its been a week with the swg off and we are just now getting close to our target fc. Pool doesnt get a ton of sun now that the sun is lower in the sky. In a week it has dropped from 15fc to 5.5fc. Just added another dose of cya. Will test again in a few days but that should get me to about 60cya. Added de to the filter last night....pool looks slightly clearer but maybe my imagination.
    12X20x54" Saltwater 8000 semi-inground, Waterway 1.5hp 2speed 22" Pump Sand Filter, Hayward Goldline Aquatrol HP SWG, TF100

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Pool cloudy

    Maintain the fc at at least 15 to 20 ppm. Is the pressure going up? Try a backwash to see what the waste looks like. Add more DE or filter fiber after backwashing. Run the filter 24/7.

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