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Thread: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

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    Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Hello,

    Great forum, been lurking for a bit.

    I have a pool that's almost 2 years old, have gotten somewhat lucky that I am just starting to have issues using trichlor tabs. Yes, planning to stop using them. Have never replaced water either.

    Major issue is that I work and stay out of town all week and cannot switch to daily liquid chlorine dosing and testing very easily... No SWG in the plans with a travertine deck either.

    That issue will have to be dealt with at a later date.

    In the meantime, I'm looking for where to start to begin to get the water in better shape before I drain water to reduce the super high CYA level this winter. It's finally cooling down here, so that will help require less chlorine.

    Can I over-chlorinate to not have to test it every day after I get an idea how much chlorine loss I see per day? I am planning to be home for about 5 days straight later this coming week. Maybe then I can have someone add a set amount daily to keep up the FC level.

    Thanks for any assistance. Here are the numbers I got today using my new K-2006C test kit.

    I will add liquid chlorine to raise the FC to at least 4 (or higher?) later tonight or early tomorrow based on suggestions. I do understand that FC is way too low especially given the CYA level. Just can't bring myself to toss more tabs in there.

    FC 2
    CC .2
    PH 7.2
    TA 70
    CH 820
    CYA >200
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    You are going HAVE to drain asap to have a hope of getting a handle on your FC need.

    Do a search on this.............. liquidators. This might be just what you need! Use the search button on the TFP home page.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Quote Originally Posted by Not4You View Post
    Hello,

    Great forum, been lurking for a bit.

    I have a pool that's almost 2 years old, have gotten somewhat lucky that I am just starting to have issues using trichlor tabs. Yes, planning to stop using them. Have never replaced water either.

    Major issue is that I work and stay out of town all week and cannot switch to daily liquid chlorine dosing and testing very easily... No SWG in the plans with a travertine deck either.

    That issue will have to be dealt with at a later date.

    In the meantime, I'm looking for where to start to begin to get the water in better shape before I drain water to reduce the super high CYA level this winter. It's finally cooling down here, so that will help require less chlorine.

    Can I over-chlorinate to not have to test it every day after I get an idea how much chlorine loss I see per day? I am planning to be home for about 5 days straight later this coming week. Maybe then I can have someone add a set amount daily to keep up the FC level.

    Thanks for any assistance. Here are the numbers I got today using my new K-2006C test kit.

    I will add liquid chlorine to raise the FC to at least 4 (or higher?) later tonight or early tomorrow based on suggestions. I do understand that FC is way too low especially given the CYA level. Just can't bring myself to toss more tabs in there.

    FC 2
    CC .2
    PH 7.2
    TA 70
    CH 820
    CYA >200
    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    If your CYA is indeed over 200ppm there is really no other option here but water exchange to lower it. At 200ppm CYA, you need to maintain a minimum of 15ppm FC, with a target of 22-25ppm. When the pool turns green with algae, you would (theoretically) need to maintain 80ppm FC. All this is based on a CYA of 200ppm, you report that it is higher than 200ppm.

    As you can see, the pool is not manageable with that high of a CYA level.

    How did you get that CYA >200ppm reading, the standard test tops out around 90-100ppm.

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    You are going HAVE to drain asap to have a hope of getting a handle on your FC need.

    Do a search on this.............. liquidators. This might be just what you need! Use the search button on the TFP home page.

    Kim
    I will search for that. Thanks!
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Quote Originally Posted by domct203 View Post
    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    If your CYA is indeed over 200ppm there is really no other option here but water exchange to lower it. At 200ppm CYA, you need to maintain a minimum of 15ppm FC, with a target of 22-25ppm. When the pool turns green with algae, you would (theoretically) need to maintain 80ppm FC. All this is based on a CYA of 200ppm, you report that it is higher than 200ppm.

    As you can see, the pool is not manageable with that high of a CYA level.

    How did you get that CYA >200ppm reading, the standard test tops out around 90-100ppm.

    Dom
    I did the CYA test from my K-2006C test kit with a 50-50 mix of pool and tap water after I first tested it with straight pool water and the dot was invisible almost instantly. The dot disappeared before I even got to the 100ppm mark with the mixture and I tried multiple times. That told me >100 times 2, so >200.

    I know FC is most important and yeah those requirements will require tons of chlorine. I was wondering if pH and CH were far enough off to need attention before I can tackle the CYA water replacement ASAP. Sounds like that's a no.

    Thanks!
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    My pool has pebble sheen and I'm in AZ. How do I safely drain water out of it and not damage the surface? Pool builder said never let the water go below the tile line. I understand this has to be done ASAP, just not sure how to do it correctly.

    Thanks
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    While draining, you can use a hose and sprayer to keep the finish wet if that concerns you. The other option would be to do a number of small drains and fills. It will take longer and use more water, but would work over time.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    While draining, you can use a hose and sprayer to keep the finish wet if that concerns you. The other option would be to do a number of small drains and fills. It will take longer and use more water, but would work over time.
    Is that required? What's the risk, scale buildup, cracking?

    Thanks!
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    I notice you mention that a SWG was out, because of travertine. I find that an interesting concern. Is your travertine from a local supplier? Is it really 'soft'. If you are concerned about the salt level used for SWGs, you might want to pick up a salt test and check your water. The results could be very interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Unfortunately, I am only able to report what others have done in your situation. I have a fiberglass pool, so I don't have the same level of concern you would.

    I would think, if it left too long the finish could dry out and might crack, but that has not been reported to actually happen.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Bob,

    I have read on here along with the pool builder saying that SWGs will cause staining on travertine.

    May just need to seal it and convert it eventually.

    I do need to get the salt test strips to see where it is now. Borates too, even though I have not used any yet.

    Thanks
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    The reason I mention the salt test is that over time, the chems we use to keep our pools clean, may have already added enough salt to satisfy a SWG. If that's true, and you aren't seeing any staining, then the concern is moot. It's really only a concern if you have a lot of splashers in the pool

    - - - Updated - - -

    But, first things first. Let's get that CYA down, and make sure you stay away from solid forms of chlorine. They aren't evil, but have to be used with a full understanding of what they do to the water. Some folks will use one or two while they are gone on vacation, or away for an extended period of time.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Understood. I'm starting to recall chemistry, a little. Thanks.
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    You are on the right track! I love that you are reading and asking questions! NICE JOB!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Kim,

    Thanks for the kind words. I never get accused of not doing enough research, lol. Actually, I had seen the Liquidator a few weeks back after learning of the Hasa brand chlorine and saw it on their website. I did not know there were people on here using them. Sounds like something to consider, and not too expensive. Thanks!

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Bob,

    Fully understand on the CYA level, will try to do that this week, if it doesn't heat up too much.

    Pool builder said people just use floaters and pucks like it is no big deal. Seems like the idea of easy helps sell pools. I'm up to the task. Feeling fortunate the pool is not green and has stayed fairly clear. May have been on the cusp of an algae bloom, but not seeing anything and will SLAM it after I exchange probably about 2/3 of the water.

    Thanks

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    I have been liquid chlorine from day one, and after a year I was at 3500 salt levels, which is right where a SWG would need it anyway. I have travertine coping and pavers. We did not seal the pavers. The coping is fine. The pavers, there is some crumbling/pocking. It was "filled" travertine, and it seems that the pieces that had a lot of fill are potholing pretty good. I have no way of knowing if that has anything to do with the salt. Some of those pieces are really near the corners or the steps, where the most splash out occurs.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeChris View Post
    I have been liquid chlorine from day one, and after a year I was at 3500 salt levels, which is right where a SWG would need it anyway. I have travertine coping and pavers. We did not seal the pavers. The coping is fine. The pavers, there is some crumbling/pocking. It was "filled" travertine, and it seems that the pieces that had a lot of fill are potholing pretty good. I have no way of knowing if that has anything to do with the salt. Some of those pieces are really near the corners or the steps, where the most splash out occurs.
    Thanks for the info Buckeye! Of course my builder didn't say if the travertine is filled or not. I assume filled is cheaper and often used outdoors. They probably make polished tiles out of the dense stuff. It's really nice looking and doesn't get as hot as other materials, so I can deal with these issues.

    When we reshape our deck, I'm going to make sure I have a bunch of extra travertine from the same lot to keep on hand, as it's guaranteed that some will need replacement eventually.
    11,190 Gallon, IG, Pebble Sheen, Completed Jan 2014, Travertine Deck, Hayward SwimClear C4030 Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed Pump, A+A MagnaSweep V-Force In-Floor Cleaning System, A+A QuikPURE3 Ozone Oxidation System, Taylor K-2006C w/ SpeedStir and SampleSizer

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeChris View Post
    I have been liquid chlorine from day one, and after a year I was at 3500 salt levels, which is right where a SWG would need it anyway. I have travertine coping and pavers. We did not seal the pavers. The coping is fine. The pavers, there is some crumbling/pocking. It was "filled" travertine, and it seems that the pieces that had a lot of fill are potholing pretty good. I have no way of knowing if that has anything to do with the salt. Some of those pieces are really near the corners or the steps, where the most splash out occurs.
    EDIT: I meant to say that NOT all the tiles with issues are near splash out. Some are a good 4 feet from the water line.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
    Hayward DE filter, 2HP Ecostar VSP, ProLogic PS-4, GVA actuators
    Cal Pools Wave Force Plus (wall return jets plus 2 floor pop-ups), Venturi Skimmer
    Water sheer, 2 wok pots, bubbler stem on the baja step
    ColorLogic Mutlicolor LED lamp. Taylor 2006+speed stir

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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    I had hoped that was what you meant, but was afraid to ask
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Where to start to move away from trichlor w/ sky-high CYA

    Have you looked into RO filtration to get your CYA down? It's more costly than water replacement but it will leave you with much better levels of CYA, CH, etc. You lose about 20% of the water in the process so you have to add that back from the tap.
    Matt
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