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Thread: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

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    Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    I am in the planning stages of laying out a 20x40 sports pool. 3-4' to 6' to 3-4'
    I have attached a drawing hoping to get some feedback on skimmer and return locations. Also listed are some questions I have.

    Plan is not to have a main drain if thats ok?
    Some say one skimmer and some say 2?
    2" pvc pipe everywhere
    For the pump I am open to options but looking at the Hayward SP2300 vsp Max-Flo?
    Salt water Generator Aqua plus and P4 Control Panel?
    I am not sure on the filter?
    Poolcleaner?
    I am considering the 48" walls if there are enough step options
    Lighting I would prefer Led but so many seem to have issues?
    I have not had much luck finding sheer decents. The planters will only be 4 foot or so. Any thoughts on the sheer decents? I am open to other water features as well.

    The pool will be used mostly for volleyball, hanging out, and maybe basketball.
    IG Vinyl, 20'x40' Sports Pool, Savannah Liner no border, 20' liner steps, 2 Venturi Renegade Skimmers, Hayward 1.5hp 2 speed pump, Aqua Rite 40k Salt system, Typhoon slide, Hayward Sand Filter, 22,519 gallons, TF-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Give us a shot of the area the pool will be going in as well. That might help with some of the questions.

    -one skimmer will be fine. Make sure it is where the wind will blow stuff on top of the water to. You know your house and land layout the best.

    -main drain-many people do not have them. I put one it and find it to be almost useless I had such high hopes it would help with cleaning the bottom but nope.

    -filer-the bigger the better. I LOVE my sand filter due to ease of use and cleaning. Others love their DE and cartridge. There are several threads on this subject. Do a search on the TFP home page.

    -can't help with the sheer decents

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    The plan is to center the pool with the covered patio area. I hope to do an outdoor kitchen there someday.

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    If it were me, on a pool that large, I would put 2 skimmers on it, and plumb each one of them individually all the way back to the equipment pad with a vale on each. Tying them together would lessen the suction of the skimmers, and negate the reasoning of having 2.

    Just as a note, I would also plum each return individually too witha valve on each pipe at the pad, as that gives you max flexibility for seeing up the water current, which enhances the skimming action.

    As for skimmer placement, you really need to place the skimmer so that the prevailing winds and breeze push the floating debris toward the skimmer. Thats important. No skimmer can overcome the wind. So if you place them incorrectly, you will have problems forever.

    Something also to consider. Depending on how often you plan on using the sheet decents. If you place the skimmer on same side as the sheer decents, there wont be much skimming action while the water is falling. The splashing water will prevent debris from being skimmed. So, thats some food for thought too.

    A main drain is not necessary. I dont have one either.

    I like your SWG and pump choices.
    For Filter, do some reading on the different types, They all work well. Bigger is better when it ocmes to filters, get the biggest one you can afford.

    Pool cleaner? - Robot. for a Liner Pool, I would suggest not getting a cleaner with the max number of scrubbers, such as the Dolpin Z5, M4, or any equivelent manufacturer. They can be hard on liners. Get one with 2 two scrubbers. Dolphin Nautilus + The dolpin triton or 300i are good choices. Or an equvelent from other manufacturers.

    The LED light issues are present in the incandescent ones too. Dont know what exactly you're referring to, but most issues are due to age, or less than top notch installation of the conduit. LED is not as bright as incandescent, so if you do go LED, you will need 2 of them for a pool that large. I would recommend mount them equally spaced on a long wall. One HUGE plus with LED, is they dont attract swarms of bugs like incandescent do. Not to mention they dont suck up near as much electricity.

    Regarding rectangle pool shape. You want the corners to have large radius. Sharp corners or small radius do not circulate water well and dirt and algae will collect there. Its also not very conducive for your pool cleaner to get in tight corners.

    Regaring the "outset steps". Consider putting a return or 2 on the top 2 steps. Dirt and floating debris get in there and cant get out. Its an every day and sometimes more than once a day activity, to keep them clean. If I have one regret about my pool its not putting getting some water flow in the steps, to keep them cleaned out. Too late now to do anything about it tho.

    hope this helps give you some things to think about.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    That area is just screaming for a pool! WOW!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Yes I can't wait. I just built the house. The back was laid out based on putting a pool in. I got electrical and plumbing ran to the location of the equipment pad. Although it looks like I am gonna need someore 2" pipe.

    So if I plumb each return individual that's gonna be a lot of pipes correct? Returns on steps, returns on cozy cove, how many regular returns?
    On the sheer decent they would be on the opposite wall of the skimmer. The main reason I want sheet decent is for the sound. I could do a slide also but I feel i would like the sheer decent better.
    Is two foot the largest radius for corners.
    I am gonna have to do some searching on the filter.
    Thanks for the comments!

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Would the pentair clean and clear cartridge be ok to use with a hayward pump.

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    You can use whichever filter with whichever pump. The only things that you really need to consider is pipe size and flow rate. I have a Clean and Clear filter, mine takes 4 cartridges, it does a good job filtering. But I hate the cleaning. To do it well takes most of a day. I really wish there was a way to backwash cartridge filters. I've read that there are certain ones that can, but haven't done the research to confirm. If I ever replace mine, I would go to sand, that way I could add DE when I want that 'extra' polish on my water.

    Something to keep in mind; By having a SWG and 2 descents, you may run into a pH rise issue. Not the end of the world, just something to consider. If you really like the sound, you might want to think about making them independent of the pool. Since you're doing it yourself you could very well do this. Instead of the water dropping into the pool, have it drop into a catchbasin placed level with the 'ground' and then a small pump from there back up to the descent. You wouldn't have to worry about plumbing them into your pool system and you could run higher chlorine in them so they stay crystal clear all the time.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    I did not think about the pH changing with the sheer descent. I'm not sure I want to deal with that if it my cause constant changes. I guess I could do an auto full on the decent to help with the evaporation.
    I am leaving towards the cartridge since you don't have to backwash. I like the sound of cleaning once or twice a year. I thought a cartridge kept the chemical levels more stable vs back washing also?

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    That is going to be a great pool! I would go 4x5x4. 3 or 3-1/2 is too shallow for us. Over 5 is too deep to stand in. We love our play pool, allows everyone to spread out and makes the pool very roomy.

    Definitely put one skimmer downwind for each prevailing wind direction. Ours blows mostly from the NW in fall and winter and SE spring and summer. Our trees drop lots of stuff for a few weeks in the spring so don't overlook the spring prevailing wind direction.

    Cartridge filters are a fair amount of work to clean, especially with lots of trees. I will seriously consider getting a sand filter next time too. But, if there isn't a lot of debris falling into your pool a cartridge filter is probably good. I don't really think that you backwash out enough water out of a sand filter to have a significant impact on the water chemistry, but I don't know for sure.

    If you only run the sheer descents when you are out by the pool it will minimize the impact to PH. It is nice to have some water noise. We only run our waterfall when we are out there. We have a 3way valve that diverts waterflow from pool returns to waterfall or combo. Pretty handy. I don't think it is necessary to plumb each return individually, ours is on a loop and works fine, we have 6 returns.

    I would plumb each skimmer individually back to a 3way valve so you can have more or less flow from each skimmer for different times of the year. It is fine not to have a bottom drain. But, I would also consider having the skimmers plumbed with equalizer pipes down to the poolwall below the skimmer. Our skimmers often get completely clogged with leaves and would stop waterflow to the pump if we weren't also drawing water from the bottom drain.

    I would definitely get a variable speed pump so you can easily control the amount of waterflow. And save moneyon electricity. We run our pump at 1100rpm 24x7 when the trees are busy so that debris is skimmed off the surface and doesn't sink to the bottom. Our pump only uses 150 watts at 1100rpm. At 10.25c/kWh it costs less than 12 bucks a month to run the pump 24x7. And they are virtually silent at lower RPMs.
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    I had a cartridge filter with my last pool. Now you need to know I was "pool stored" with my last pool so............I HATED my cartridge filter. It was a pain to clean and took quite a bit of time and effort.

    With my new pool I have a sand filter and LOVE it! SO easy and NO getting wet unless I want to LOL

    Like Bob I just put in some DE to help polish my pool if it needs it.

    I LIKE the idea of being able to backwash if/when I need or want to. IF I were every to get an algae bloom a sand filter is MUCH easier to use to clear it due to being able to backwash it.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Very true about algae. Algae can clog a cartridge filter in a matter hours. Cleaning cartridges every day or two or three while SLAMing is a lot of extra work. But, maintaining your pool TFPC will prevent algae very effectively. And if you do get algae once you will likely make sure it never happens again!
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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Also, in regard to tree debris, I would consider using a skimmer sock. That will keep the smallish stuff from plugging it up. Yes, you will have to clean the sock, but it's easier then the filter.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Now I'm torn on the cartridge filter or sand. Decisions decisions! If I have to clean the cartridge more than twice a year I would rather do the sand. I just thought cartridge would be less maintenance.

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    It is a hard decision! I had NO idea how much I would love my sand filter until I got it and backwashed it---------SO easy! BUT that is being said from some one who was so pool stored with our first pool the whole pool was ruined and taken out! I had to clean the cartridge ALL.OF.THE.TIME!! BUT that was before TFP!

    I REFUSED to get another pool! Hubby really missed the pool so I told him if he could find a fast, easy, cheap way to take care of a pool with OUT going to a pool store we could get another pool! He found TFP, I got a test kit to make sure I COULD do the tests................I now love our pool!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Hopefully I'm ahead of the game. I found TFP and my build will be based on the information found here. Great place here and I am very thankful for all input given

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    We will help you save money AND help you spend money on fun things! LOL

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Plumbing is one thing I have done some research on but have not really found what I'm looking for on how to plumb the pool. I build houses as a side job. 4 this year so far and my house I built last year. I have plumbed all of them so I know I can do it. I just gotta figure out the layout and what goes where. My wife would say I'm a perfectionist. Took me almost two years of planning before I built my own home. We'll worth the time now that it's finished. I will be the same way on figuring out all this pool stuff. I love a challenge. People think I'm crazy when o say I'm gonna do my own pool. I always say to myself. Surely if I can build.houses I can do my own pool alao. Probably better than a local installer.

    So about the plumbing. Are you saying I could do a 3 way jandy valve with the returns and decents? Meaning I could run just the decents while swimming. And run just the returns the rest of the time. Or would I run the returns and decents together when swimming?

    What is an equalizer pipe on the skimmer?

    When you say your returns are on a loop. Does this mean you loop.the supply all the way around the pool? This sounds similar to irrigstion. I install irrigation systems and sometimes we install a looped mainline around the whole property if the water meter supply enough gpm. Then the flow is equalized and you can run two zones at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    That is going to be a great pool! I would go 4x5x4. 3 or 3-1/2 is too shallow for us. Over 5 is too deep to stand in. We love our play pool, allows everyone to spread out and makes the pool very roomy.

    Definitely put one skimmer downwind for each prevailing wind direction. Ours blows mostly from the NW in fall and winter and SE spring and summer. Our trees drop lots of stuff for a few weeks in the spring so don't overlook the spring prevailing wind direction.

    Cartridge filters are a fair amount of work to clean, especially with lots of trees. I will seriously consider getting a sand filter next time too. But, if there isn't a lot of debris falling into your pool a cartridge filter is probably good. I don't really think that you backwash out enough water out of a sand filter to have a significant impact on the water chemistry, but I don't know for sure.

    If you only run the sheer descents when you are out by the pool it will minimize the impact to PH. It is nice to have some water noise. We only run our waterfall when we are out there. We have a 3way valve that diverts waterflow from pool returns to waterfall or combo. Pretty handy. I don't think it is necessary to plumb each return individually, ours is on a loop and works fine, we have 6 returns.

    I would plumb each skimmer individually back to a 3way valve so you can have more or less flow from each skimmer for different times of the year. It is fine not to have a bottom drain. But, I would also consider having the skimmers plumbed with equalizer pipes down to the poolwall below the skimmer. Our skimmers often get completely clogged with leaves and would stop waterflow to the pump if we weren't also drawing water from the bottom drain.

    I would definitely get a variable speed pump so you can easily control the amount of waterflow. And save moneyon electricity. We run our pump at 1100rpm 24x7 when the trees are busy so that debris is skimmed off the surface and doesn't sink to the bottom. Our pump only uses 150 watts at 1100rpm. At 10.25c/kWh it costs less than 12 bucks a month to run the pump 24x7. And they are virtually silent at lower RPMs.
    - - - Updated - - -

    I already see that. But I will spend it on the right things!

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    We will help you save money AND help you spend money on fun things! LOL

    Kim

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Quote Originally Posted by joallen001 View Post
    So about the plumbing. Are you saying I could do a 3 way jandy valve with the returns and decents? Meaning I could run just the decents while swimming. And run just the returns the rest of the time. Or would I run the returns and decents together when swimming?

    What is an equalizer pipe on the skimmer?

    When you say your returns are on a loop. Does this mean you loop.the supply all the way around the pool? This sounds similar to irrigstion. I install irrigation systems and sometimes we install a looped mainline around the whole property if the water meter supply enough gpm. Then the flow is equalized and you can run two zones at once.
    Take a look at my build thread, link in sig, there are some plumbing pics in it that will probably help.

    My normal setting is all water to returns, when we want some water noise we turn the 3way valve to some returns and some waterfall. Or all waterfall if you want more flow, the VS pump helps here also to adjust waterflow. So, you can swim with or without the descents running and leave them off during normal day to day filtering.

    Yes, exactly, there is one 2" pipe going all the way around the pool and the pool returns tee off the loop. This equalizes the water pressure so each return gets pretty much the same water pressure.

    A skimmer box has two holes inside it. One that plumbs back to the pump, the other one can be blocked, plumbed to a main drain or plumbed to a suction line a foot or 18" below the skimmer weir in the pool wall. This will allow water flow into the skimmer if the water level drops below the skimmer mouth or the skimmer basket gets clogged.
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    Re: Planning for DIY Liner Pool Install with Picture

    Thanks for the details!

    Anyone know if a swimout can be used with 48" walls. On royal swimming pools it shows them only with the standard walls.

    Also I have been searching the forums for the foam concrete coping. I have not had any luck. Has anyone done the foam coping and how did it turn out?

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