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Thread: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

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    Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    My configuration is that my auto cleaner line comes out of and back into (after the booster pump) the return line. I have two returns on one line. My problem is that I am blowing the return line and auto cleaner line (since the auto cleaner line is tied into it) at the same time. I used my Cyclone for approximately 1 minute and it shooting water and bubbles out of the pool, so I capped the closest return first and then let it blow for another minute or so and capped the second return. There was only a fine mist coming out of the autocleaner line as well. My problem is that when I put antifreeze in the return line, I only get about 1.5 gallons before the line is full, which can't be right because the line is about 60 - 80 feet (guessing there).

    Could the air in the line prevent the antifreeze from filling up the return line or am I just not blowing long enough?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Or should I cap the cleaner line to make sure I am getting enough pressure through the return lines?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I will say that I tried this process twice and the second time, it took about 10 seconds before the antifreeze came through the return if that means anything! First time closing!!! Arghhhh!!!
    18 X 36 (21,000 gallons?), IG Vinyl, Tagelus High Rate Sand Filter (Model TA 60/60D - 60 gpm), 1.5 HP Waterway 48 Frame Special Flow Rate Pump (Model SMF-115), Installed June/July 2013, Auto Polaris Cleaner with separate pump, Inline Chlorinator (NOT USING - Using the BBB Method), Waterfall, Stadium Seating Entry, TF-100 w/ SpeedStir (Wichita, Kansas)

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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    What is your "auto cleaner"? Is this a vacuum (suction) or something on the floor of the pool that spins to kick dirt around (return)? You said this was tied into the return line. Also you mention that you could cap off the cleaner line? Capping any type of plumbing after removing water is always best. Only the MD usually is not capped.

    In my opinion, if you are using the Cyclone and ran it for 1 minute, this is plenty. Depending on piping and length, 1.5 gallons may be the max. I would not spend too much time trying to figure out how much liquid volume, in addition to air volume you are holding in your piping. One would also think that when you close off a return and open up to pour Anti-Freeze, air would escape pretty quickly. A total of 10 seconds is telling me that you removed almost all the water out of the piping, which is your goal. I remember in the spring when I opened up each return (4 of each side) only a little bit of air was left in the line and after I removed the first plug, the remainder of the plugs had little to no air left in them.

    As long as you remove most of the water (not all) out of the lines, you are fine. Most people only use Anti-Freeze in the skimmers. I personally removed all the water out of the skimmer that I did not use Anti-Freeze at all.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    The auto-cleaner line (looks like a return line) enters the pool just below the top of the water line for the Polaris cleaner.

    I guess I was a little worried that the line is most likely closer to 80 feet so it would seem more than 1.5 gallons would fit in there. I will say that when I opened the plugs the second time to re-blow them, I could definitely tell the lines were filling up with water, so clearly I got some out of it.

    As far as the autocleaner line, I have a special plug for it so I can cap it when blowing the return line to make sure all the air is dedicated to the returns and then cap those. You are probably right that I have got most of the water out, but may try to one more time to make sure. Just don't want to keep wasting antifreeze. I will say I was able to get 3 gallons in the skimmer line and could have put a lot more in it, so it worries me just a tad with the small amount that I can only put in the return line. The pipes appear to be all 1.5 inches.
    18 X 36 (21,000 gallons?), IG Vinyl, Tagelus High Rate Sand Filter (Model TA 60/60D - 60 gpm), 1.5 HP Waterway 48 Frame Special Flow Rate Pump (Model SMF-115), Installed June/July 2013, Auto Polaris Cleaner with separate pump, Inline Chlorinator (NOT USING - Using the BBB Method), Waterfall, Stadium Seating Entry, TF-100 w/ SpeedStir (Wichita, Kansas)

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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    My problem is that I am blowing the return line and auto cleaner line (since the auto cleaner line is tied into it) at the same time.
    I am having a little difficulty with this one. Most Polaris lines are dedicated with their own pump (from what I know). A cleaner is "suction", while a return is where water enters the pool. Just like a skimmer and main drain (these are on the suction side) as well. Unless I am missing something here?

    Below is a website, which makes a little more sense. In a traditional skimmer vacuum (manual) debris is sucked into the system. I should have installed a Polaris line myself, although manual vacuuming is really not that big of an issue.

    Polaris Pool USA | #1 Swimming Pool Cleaner Worldwide | Polaris Automatic Pool Cleaners & Accessories

    Polaris Pool Cleaners: Everything You Need to Know Before You Buy

    Regarding your method of closing the pool, you should feel confident that everything was done properly.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    I think I misspoke above. The return line comes out of the sand filter to a union for blowing the lines. Below the winterizing union the polaris line t's off from the return line to a booster pump and then to it's own 1.5 inch line. So essentially, when I am blowing the return line, I am also blowing the polaris line. I really need to install a valve somewhere shortly after it t's off, for winterizing purposes and because when I run my waterfall, I really need as much water pressure as I can get so it would help to be able to close the return line and the polaris line. If that makes sense.

    I'll cap the polaris where it enters the pool and give it one more go around and call it good. I probably just run the cyclone for 5 minutes just be safe. I'll let you know how it goes!!
    18 X 36 (21,000 gallons?), IG Vinyl, Tagelus High Rate Sand Filter (Model TA 60/60D - 60 gpm), 1.5 HP Waterway 48 Frame Special Flow Rate Pump (Model SMF-115), Installed June/July 2013, Auto Polaris Cleaner with separate pump, Inline Chlorinator (NOT USING - Using the BBB Method), Waterfall, Stadium Seating Entry, TF-100 w/ SpeedStir (Wichita, Kansas)

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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    If you cap the line and then put antifreeze in quickly it sometimes locks in the air which i think is happening to you. I drain below the returns and them blow out the lines. When i add the antifreeze sometimes i will have to remove a plug so the air can escape and the antifreeze go in the line. If you poor it in slowly enough the air can escape.


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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    Quote Originally Posted by mmirav View Post
    If you cap the line and then put antifreeze in quickly it sometimes locks in the air which i think is happening to you. I drain below the returns and them blow out the lines. When i add the antifreeze sometimes i will have to remove a plug so the air can escape and the antifreeze go in the line. If you poor it in slowly enough the air can escape.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Yeah, if it wasn't for my autocover, I would just drain below the returns. I may open up one of the plugs very slightly and see if the antifreeze (that I can see in the return line at the equipment pad) disappears.
    18 X 36 (21,000 gallons?), IG Vinyl, Tagelus High Rate Sand Filter (Model TA 60/60D - 60 gpm), 1.5 HP Waterway 48 Frame Special Flow Rate Pump (Model SMF-115), Installed June/July 2013, Auto Polaris Cleaner with separate pump, Inline Chlorinator (NOT USING - Using the BBB Method), Waterfall, Stadium Seating Entry, TF-100 w/ SpeedStir (Wichita, Kansas)

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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    So, I re-blew the return the lines and made sure I capped the polaris line to ensure good flow to the two returns. I blew them for at least five minutes and the capped them. Still was only able to get 1.5 gallons of antifreeze in the line. When I unplugged them, they bubbled pretty good which tells me that water was filling in the line (so I probably didn't even need to reblow them). It is strange because the skimmer line run a shorter distance than the return line, but yet I was able to get 3 to 4 gallons (and could have got more) in that line. The skimmer line isn't capped at both ends, so air doesn't get trapped in it I suppose. It is really the only explanation of why I cannot put that much antifreeze into the return line. Strange. Oh well...I am pretty confident all lines are free of water and I saved myself tons of money!!!
    18 X 36 (21,000 gallons?), IG Vinyl, Tagelus High Rate Sand Filter (Model TA 60/60D - 60 gpm), 1.5 HP Waterway 48 Frame Special Flow Rate Pump (Model SMF-115), Installed June/July 2013, Auto Polaris Cleaner with separate pump, Inline Chlorinator (NOT USING - Using the BBB Method), Waterfall, Stadium Seating Entry, TF-100 w/ SpeedStir (Wichita, Kansas)

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    Re: Closing Question - Return Lines - Blowing Long Enough??

    It appears that you are all set for the winter! Time to take a break.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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