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Thread: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

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    pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Hello to all,

    We had a no-drain acid wash done to make the pebble sheen finish more uniform. It worked and looks pretty good. The gunite/finishing company said to keep our pH at a 7.2 - 7.3 range while it continues to cure. The p-sheen was applied on 2/2015, the no-drain was done around June.

    Our pool is starting to get some green around most of the curved areas. I've been remote so I have a credible person maintaining the pool. He said the lower pH weakens the CL somewhat, so we are getting a little algae now. We live in Houston. He said he would apply some Na Bromide this thur or fri when he comes.

    I was just curious to get your opinions on what I need to do or say to ensure we are all good to go? Pls let me know if you have any questions or want water readings when he comes. I asked for reading before and after treatment.

    Thank you,
    tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    I think you need a pool guy who understands chlorine better. Your chlorine level might be too low for your CYA level (its a balancing act between those two chems) and that has allowed algae to get a start or those curved areas aren't getting enough circulation and brushing. I don't believe this was caused by your pH being on the low side.

    Can you please provide us with your own test kit numbers?

    How do you normally chlorinate your pool??
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    pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    I just saw you are a long time member....

    Is the pool a bromine pool? If not then you absolutely do not want to add any bromides to the water!

    The bromide will be oxidized by any chlorine you add to the pool and converted to bromine. Bromine is a sanitizer too but you will then have a mixed bromine/chlorine pool which will be harder to manage as the bromide will cause a constant chlorine demand.

    [EDIT]
    Ignore this part, as you apparently have been around TFP for a while....

    You need to spend some time here on TFP reading about the ABCs of Water Chemistry and understanding the TFPC Method of pool care. We do not advocate just dumping chemical products and hoping/praying they work. Dump & Pray is the methodology of pool stores. Here at TFP we base our chemical additions on sound scientific principles that starts with pool owners testing their own water and only adding chemicals that the water needs.

    [END-EDIT]

    I would advise you that your pool caretaker not put any chemicals in the water until you get an accurate test kit to determine what your water needs.


    Matt
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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Thank you to those that responded - it is appreciated.

    questions:

    Can you please provide us with your own test kit numbers? I will be back late Wed and will do some tests w TF-100 & stir stick & post back

    How do you normally chlorinate your pool?? Tablets are loaded into Hayward chlorine dispensing unit & release rate is via software - when 3HP VSP is running, CL is being dispensed

    Is the pool a bromine pool? I've not added any and have not heard of him mentioning Na Bromide or Bromine previously

    I would advise you that your pool caretaker not put any chemicals in the water until you get an accurate test kit to determine what your water needs. - I concur...he always does his tests first before adding anything. I have asked for before and after test results...

    I will do my tests tomorrow and post back - thank you folks, tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Some algaecides contain sodium bromide as an "active" ingredient. The problem is, once you add bromine to your swimming pool, it stays there and it creates chlorine demand (because chlorine oxidizes bromide to hypobromite/hypobromous acid). The only way to remove bromine is through water exchange. HERE is a pdf summary of the various algaecides out on the market with advantages and disadvantages listed (it is marketing literature but is surprisingly HONEST in it's brief assessments....). Of course, it goes without saying, that the TFP recommendation that algaecides are usually unnecessary, is still true.
    Matt
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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    This might not be a fair ques, but based on other pool scenarios like mine [w out readings], what is the recommendation w out using a bromine-based chemical? Would increasing the VSP run time, thus the dispensing of more CL be a start?

    Thank you
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    For my pool, I have 50ppm borates in the water (which I added using boric acid) and that acts as a mild algaestat. The other option that TFP recommends is Polyquat-60. That is often recommended when people need to do an Ascorbic acid metal stain treatment where the FC has to go to 0ppm. Polyquat-60 does require regular, weekly maintenance dosing as it does breakdown from chlorine.

    Remember, algaecides are, at best, just insurance. They'll let you get away with a momentary drop in FC but once the green monster gets hold, chlorine is the only thing that will get you back to clean.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    If the circulation is poor in the corners then brushing them would help. The FC/CYA ratio could be raised to partially overcome the poor circulation especially if you brush to kill off the algae by moving them to chlorinated areas and vice versa. Low pH does NOT make chlorine less effective -- that part is simply not true.

    Did you ever have this problem before with this pool? It sounds to me like the person taking care of your pool may not be properly maintaining the FC level relative to the CYA level.
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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    If you are using tablets, you likely have high CYA.
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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    I'm very surprised that a long time TFPer is still using pucks. Especially for daily dosage. You do know that they raise CYA, right? And that this in turn causes you to need more chlorine to battle the green meanie? Also, I seem to remember that low pH actually helps chlorine work more effectively, (that one I'm not 100% sure about)

    All you normally need is to get your test readings and adjust FC using bleach.

    Now that you have algae it's SLAM time!! Be sure to remember the Maintain part of SLAM. Test and add bleach often to maintain the FC at SLAM level.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    "Did you ever have this problem before with this pool? It sounds to me like the person taking care of your pool may not be properly maintaining the FC level relative to the CYA level. "

    No, I have not had this problem before. I also have not been running my robotic shark like I used to do so - I arrived hm late last night and tossed her in for a 4-hr cycle, once it completed, I ran it for another 4 hrs...it looks a lot better this morning. I have to leave and will be back in the late aftn and will do some water tests and post back, if I did not fall asleep on the way hm.

    If I can, I like to keep it as simple as possible and stick to the proactive measures in maintaining the pool... I'm going to veto the Na Bromide and run the shark more often...I'll post back later w readings...thanks again.
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    "I just saw you are a long time member...." Joy, I joined the forum in late 2012 bc I felt "unbiased info" on pool design and other was the heart and soul of the forum. However, we did not have water in our finally built pool until Feb 2015, after almost a yr of horrendous experiences. So our water chemistry experience should be predicated on that timeframe, not 2012 Just thought I would clarify for the record - thank you, to all
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Oh, well then...

    Welcome! We are glad to see you here.

    Sorry your build experience was so poor
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    "I just saw you are a long time member...." Joy, I joined the forum in late 2012 bc I felt "unbiased info" on pool design and other was the heart and soul of the forum. However, we did not have water in our finally built pool until Feb 2015, after almost a yr of horrendous experiences. So our water chemistry experience should be predicated on that timeframe, not 2012 Just thought I would clarify for the record - thank you, to all
    Got it. Ok, well then you should definitely hit up PoolSchool and read up on as much water chemistry as you can and let us know what pieces we can help fill in.

    Good luck.

    Matt


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Ok, Pre-treatment readings were:

    pH 7.4 added btw 1/4 - 1/2 gal acid to get to 7.2
    CYA 60PPM, our goal is 30-50PPM, so this was high and he added 1 gal of liquid CL for shock
    TA 70
    FC 1.5
    TFC 2.0

    I'll monitor FC during Slam

    He already added 4 pucks to the dispensing unit, but we are going to liquid bleach next week bc I want to keep better control of CYA and recommendations here...

    I'll post back tomorrow and pls let me know if you have any questions....thank you
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Only thing that jumps-out at me from those numbers is the low FC. I'd hit the pool with some bleach right away to get that number closer to your ideal target of 7 and keep it there (or FC of 24 for your SLAM). Never let it go below 5 with your CYA (60)That will be very important as the temperatures increase for your swimming season.
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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Won't those pucks drive the CYA up even higher??
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Good point! tstex, if your ultimate goal is to bring down the CYA, you definitely want to remove the pucks right away. Stick to the bleach. Good catch Bob.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Thanks guys, here's some clarifications.

    1. He added a gallon of liquid bleach today for the SLAM - maybe I did not accentuate that statement
    2. He had already added the pucks, so once wet, I was not going to tell him to pull them, but we agreed on liq bleach from this point forward.
    3. Re CYA, temps are going to decrease from this point forward. The gunite/pebblesheen folks said to keep the CYA btw 30-50 and pH around 7.2. If anything forms, do a shock.

    Hope that helps and let me know if you need anything else? thx, tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: pH, pebble sheen & green forming on curves of pool

    Even wet, you really don't want them in there. Just dump them out into a bucket. Each adds about 2ppm in a pool your size.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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