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Thread: Stains-what to do?

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    Stains-what to do?

    Diamond Brite was applied to our pool in early June, 2015. We added Hayward AquaBrite t-15 salt chlorination system in mid September. Since that time, we've had difficulty keeping the water balanced. I take a sample to our local pool store once a week, and have always needed to add something. There are now stains in various locations on bottom (not sides or steps)of pool. They do not cover the entire bottom, nor are concentrated in any one location. They are light grey. One pool guy suggested they were mineral deposits, and the only way to get rid of them is to drain, then acid wash the pool. The rep from SGM said it was mottling hydration, and that certain products from Jack's Magic would take care of it.

    Took a sample of water to Pinch-a-Penny. He suggested using Jack's Stain ID Kit to determine the nature of the stain. But to use Jack's Stain ID Kit, I need to balance the pool to certain levels. One level in particular is troublesome; the TDS. Jack's indicates TDS must be below 1200 ppm. My sample was at 4,500 ppm. Pinch-a-Penny guy said I need to drain almost all the water from the pool, the fill it with fresh water in order to lower the TDS, then use Jack's Stain ID Kit. My question: Must I drain the pool? Is there another less complicated procedure to identify the stain, and then add what I should to eliminate it? Any suggestions would be most welcomed!
    30 x 15; in ground; about 16,000 gallons; Diamond Brite (applied 06-2015); Hayward AquaRite salt chlorination (t-15); Hayward filter (CX900-RE/PXC-95); Century V-Green 165 variable speed motor; all located in south Florida.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Easy, place a vitamin c tablet on the stain. Wait a few minutes. If stain clears or gets lighter it's metal. Drop a chlorine tab on it for a few minutes. If it clears or gets lighter it's organic.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me) Goldline SWG Intermec 104 TImer Test kit K-2006-C

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Henry, you've been relying on pool stores to care for your water. To be honest here, its not in their best interest to *not* find a problem that they can sell you something for, right? And pool store test results have been found to be lacking time and time again. Your best bet is to get yourself your own reliable test kit (there are only two we like) and learn to use it. You have a vested interest in doing it right and it will save you *gobs* of money in the end.

    Most of our pool care method is based on easy to obtain, least expensive chemicals found at the local Publix. Liquid chlorine is just a fancy name for "bleach". Alkalinity Increaser is an expensive at the pool store but dirt cheap when you buy the exact same chemical but at Walmart its called "baking soda"..... How neat is this?!

    Get a test kit (TFTestkits.net) and come back to us with any questions on chemistry and we'll be here to help. We'll help you get rid of these stains and avoid them in the future.

    Yippee
    12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub. Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain
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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Like YS said, you really need to get the kit and get your pool correctly balanced. Stain removal is secondary to that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me) Goldline SWG Intermec 104 TImer Test kit K-2006-C

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Emphasizing what has been posted above, your first priority is to get your pool chemistry in shape and then work on stains.

    As you can see as you read further, we are advocates of testing your own water. TFPC is not about a certain majic ingredient or "secrets your PB doesn't want you to know". It is simply about understanding and learning. That always begins with a high quality test kit.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Many thanks! Didn't know it could be that simple. I shall give this a go. Have ordered the T-100 test kit. In the meantime, had the pool water analyzed at local pool store just to get some "ball park" figures for starters. Would be interested to learn what you all think these figures might indicate, and to what I should give any attention.

    FC: 10+ (off the charts, the guy said)
    pH: 7.8 (too high, he said)
    TA: 80 ppm (in range, he said)
    CH: 175 (too low, he said)
    CYA: 80 ppm (within range)

    And then there is this reading for Total Dissolved Solids of 4,500 ppm. The guy said this was way too high, and that it should be down to about 2,500 ppm for all the other chemicals to work properly. When I looked on line for information about TDS, most of the literature seem to suggest that this is a factor to which too much attention has been payed, and that this variable is really of little or no concern. Anyone have information about the role of TDS in pool chemistry?

    Again, thanks very much. Your responses have given me a direction with which I am more comfortable than continuing to rely on pool stores.
    30 x 15; in ground; about 16,000 gallons; Diamond Brite (applied 06-2015); Hayward AquaRite salt chlorination (t-15); Hayward filter (CX900-RE/PXC-95); Century V-Green 165 variable speed motor; all located in south Florida.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Disregard TDS. It is irrelevant.

    There are some other issues with the pool store analysis but we would rather see you post your own test results up and we'll go from there.

    Tooting our own horn a bit, but you will be very happy with the ability to test (accurately) your own water and to finally understand what and why. This entire forum will help!
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Hi Henry,
    I would like to mention, that the big Pool School button at the top of the page contains tons of good info about water chemistry. The abc's is the place to start.
    That will teach you what each water parameter is, and how it may effect another.

    I suggest that until you learn more about pool chemistry and get a better understanding of it, to just these recommended levels to balance your water. Whether you understand or not, if you will just keep your levels within these ranges, you will be good.
    Pool School - Recommended Levels

    And the next question everyone asks is, "how much of something to add?". Well thats easy, we all use this handy dandy tool called Pool Math.
    Enter your test results, and it will tell you how much of something you need to add - or not.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    You all have been marvelous! And I am very grateful.
    30 x 15; in ground; about 16,000 gallons; Diamond Brite (applied 06-2015); Hayward AquaRite salt chlorination (t-15); Hayward filter (CX900-RE/PXC-95); Century V-Green 165 variable speed motor; all located in south Florida.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Henry, just so you knw, pinch a penny guy or gal is a complete idiot over this:
    My sample was at 4,500 ppm
    You have a SALTWATER pool -- about 3500 of those ppm are SALT related. TDS doesn't distinguish

    Call Jack's directly, talk to someone knowledgeable, explain you're a saltwater pool, and ask if the stain kit will still work!

    (I'd be surprised if they've failed to account for swg owners.)
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Henry, since you have a new plaster job, how about posting a couple of pictures of the stained areas.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Will try this. Am severely technologically challenged, but will give it a go. Thanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Swampwoman (swamps in Michigan?): I'll give this try. Thanks.
    30 x 15; in ground; about 16,000 gallons; Diamond Brite (applied 06-2015); Hayward AquaRite salt chlorination (t-15); Hayward filter (CX900-RE/PXC-95); Century V-Green 165 variable speed motor; all located in south Florida.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Lol. Yes, Henry, the Michigan "swamp" was a foreclosure pool with about 20 wheelbarrows of rotted leaves in it and typical black water ecosystem of frogs etc and enough ammonia and sulphur to gag the techs who first tried (unsuccessfully) to open it

    The swamp lives no more, thanks to TFP, so I probably should have changed my name to CrystaClearTfpWoman
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
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    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    CrystaClearTfpWoman
    Nah, sorry to hijack the thread but that just doesn't have the same ring to it as "swampwoman"
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Have to agree with duraleigh. Am awaiting arrival of TF Test Kit, and will post results. Am looking forward to getting things settled. Again, many thanks to all of you!
    30 x 15; in ground; about 16,000 gallons; Diamond Brite (applied 06-2015); Hayward AquaRite salt chlorination (t-15); Hayward filter (CX900-RE/PXC-95); Century V-Green 165 variable speed motor; all located in south Florida.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    TF Test Kit finally arrived! Followed all directions to the hilt. Did tests twice, on two separate days. The results:

    Calcium Hardness: 375
    TA: 90
    CYA: 60

    I saved Chlorine for last because it seems to be an issue. I think the ppm is off the charts. In both tests, after I added the R-0870 powder, the color of the water bypassed pink and went straight to a very dark, royal purple. After 130 drops of the R-0871, it turned light pink. I stopped at 130 drops. The water never became clear. So I shifted to the T-1000 Basic. The water turned an orange color; never got anywhere near a yellow. I also used the Basic test for pH: 7.2.

    Any suggestions from anyone as to I should proceed from here would be most welcomed.
    30 x 15; in ground; about 16,000 gallons; Diamond Brite (applied 06-2015); Hayward AquaRite salt chlorination (t-15); Hayward filter (CX900-RE/PXC-95); Century V-Green 165 variable speed motor; all located in south Florida.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    One thing you can try, since your FC appears very high, is try it with a 5ml sample. each drop is 1ppm

    And with a FC over 10ppm the pH does read correctly, so you can hold off on that until you get the FC down.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me) Goldline SWG Intermec 104 TImer Test kit K-2006-C

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    pabeader: Thanks for your reply. Will try your suggestion. Is there a method for lowering the FC?
    30 x 15; in ground; about 16,000 gallons; Diamond Brite (applied 06-2015); Hayward AquaRite salt chlorination (t-15); Hayward filter (CX900-RE/PXC-95); Century V-Green 165 variable speed motor; all located in south Florida.

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    Yes, but unless it's stopping you from using the pool, it's better to let it fall naturally. It's taking care of a any organics that might be in there.
    You have your SWG turned way down, right?
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me) Goldline SWG Intermec 104 TImer Test kit K-2006-C

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    Re: Stains-what to do?

    In to watch and learn from this one.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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