Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    I notice that since I started to increase my FC levels my CC has risen too. I though shocking/increase FC level would lower CC not increase it. My FC is now 14.5PPM and my CC is 1ppm. I started to raise my FC production in preparation for closing new weeks.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    TFP Guide

    pabeader's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Dallas Ga
    Posts
    4,064

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    It just means that the higher FC has found something that needed oxidizing. Maybe some hidden algae in a light or step.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    So should I use shock or Oxidizer? What is the difference anyways.....I have not shock for months (water is fine until now), but when I used to rely on pool store test, they were always selling me Oxidizer instead of Shock.


    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    It just means that the higher FC has found something that needed oxidizing. Maybe some hidden algae in a light or step.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    TFP Guide

    pabeader's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Dallas Ga
    Posts
    4,064

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    Neither, just hold steady for a day or so. The chlorine will take care of it. Make sure you have good sun exposure as much as possible.

    BTW. You have no need for 'shock' or 'oxidizer' anymore. All you need is bleach/liquid chlorine. That's the beauty of TFP.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    Neither, just hold steady for a day or so. The chlorine will take care of it. Make sure you have good sun exposure as much as possible.

    BTW. You have no need for 'shock' or 'oxidizer' anymore. All you need is bleach/liquid chlorine. That's the beauty of TFP.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,495

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    Quote Originally Posted by RESISTENCIA13 View Post
    I have not shock for months (water is fine until now), but when I used to rely on pool store test, they were always selling me Oxidizer instead of Shock.
    Following our methods you never "shock" your pool. I have never shocked my pool
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  7. Back To Top    #7

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,178

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    I notice that since I started to increase my FC levels my CC has risen too. I though shocking/increase FC level would lower CC not increase it. My FC is now 14.5PPM and my CC is 1ppm. I started to raise my FC production in preparation for closing new weeks.
    I believe you just have ordered your TF-100 kit this summer because of the issues that were occurring with CH. Can you please post a full set of results. When performing the test, please do the following:

    4. Swirling constantly and counting the number of drops as you go, add R-0871 one drop at a time. Continue adding drops until the color changes to clear. The pink color may become extremely faint before it goes away. Make sure that the sample goes completely clear
    I actually perform this test outside, as the CFL bulbs in the home do not produce the best lighting and my eye sight is better this way. If the pink color is extremely faint, please add another drop until completely clear. If I stop before doing this, I always register CC of .5, otherwise CC is 0. If you have CC that registers 0, then the color change to pink is very apparent when adding the 5 drops of R-0003. You do not have to put a lot of pressure on the R-0871, just enough where the drops are consistent and they fall off the tip. Pressure makes the drops move very quickly. If indeed, there is a CC of 1, then you will need to SLAM until you pass the 3 Tests before closing the pool.

    Please keep us posted!

    Extended Test Kit Directions
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    My test results the date my CC was high were as follows:

    FC 9ppm
    CC 1PPM
    PH 8.4 PM
    TA 75PPM
    CH 500PPM
    CYA 60

    I will be performing another full panel test this week as soon as I receive reagent refill I ordered. I will post results once done.





    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    I believe you just have ordered your TF-100 kit this summer because of the issues that were occurring with CH. Can you please post a full set of results. When performing the test, please do the following:



    I actually perform this test outside, as the CFL bulbs in the home do not produce the best lighting and my eye sight is better this way. If the pink color is extremely faint, please add another drop until completely clear. If I stop before doing this, I always register CC of .5, otherwise CC is 0. If you have CC that registers 0, then the color change to pink is very apparent when adding the 5 drops of R-0003. You do not have to put a lot of pressure on the R-0871, just enough where the drops are consistent and they fall off the tip. Pressure makes the drops move very quickly. If indeed, there is a CC of 1, then you will need to SLAM until you pass the 3 Tests before closing the pool.

    Please keep us posted!

    Extended Test Kit Directions
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    TFP Guide
    PAGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    2,388

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    Quote Originally Posted by RESISTENCIA13 View Post
    My test results the date my CC was high were as follows:

    FC 9ppm
    CC 1PPM
    PH 8.4 PM
    TA 75PPM
    CH 500PPM
    CYA 60

    I will be performing another full panel test this week as soon as I receive reagent refill I ordered. I will post results once done.
    I hope you used some MA to lower the PH. That seems unusually high. It might be a good idea to to an overnight chlorine loss test. (OCLT)

    Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,081

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    What test did you use to get a result of 8.4 for pH?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    I used PH test that comes with the TF-100. I know the highest tested level can only be 8.2, but based on the color being so red, I estimated 8.4. I tested again today and my number look better, but I am concern with my CSI? Can someone clarify how to read the CSI values as there is two sets numbers. I do not really understand what the 2nd set of number means as normally that is the target level, but I did not input this number. My results are as follows:

    FC 30.5 (I am shocking just in case in preparation for closing this saturday)
    CC 0
    TA 75
    CH 500
    CYA 60 I think, I am still having problems as to when the black that is really gone or obscured.

    CSI -0.36 Left side and -0.84 right side.

    Per pool math there is potential to become corrosive to plaster. Is what I though to be stains corrosion? See attached picture.


    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    What test did you use to get a result of 8.4 for pH?
    - - - Updated - - -

    I did and it levels are lower now. See my previous post. FYI: My pool was built last years so I have battling PH all summer.



    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    I hope you used some MA to lower the PH. That seems unusually high. It might be a good idea to to an overnight chlorine loss test. (OCLT)

    Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,495

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    None of the tests are designed for extrapolation of results once you get off the scale. Use 8.2 in Pool Math to calculate the amount of muratic acid needed and work from there. May times when you are off the scale you need to make additions several times until you get back on the scale.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  13. Back To Top    #13

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,081

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    I can't help with CSI.....I don't use it.

    You need to get your pH down soon. You cannot test it accurately now because your FC is over 10 ppm.......that skews the pH test.

    What you can do is Assume the value was 8.2 and set poolmath to calculate a dose down to 7.4. Even if your FC remains high, you can be fairly confident your FC is below 8.0 which is fine.

    The other result that jumps out a little is the CH of 500. That's pretty unusual for the East Coast. What is the CH of your fill water?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  14. Back To Top    #14

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,178

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    FC 30.5 (I am shocking just in case in preparation for closing this saturday) CC 0 TA 75 CH 500 CYA 60 I think, I am still having problems as to when the black that is really gone or obscured. CSI -0.36 Left side and -0.84 right side.
    Question: TA could only be 70 or 80. Unless I am missing something from the TF-100 testing, you multiply by 10. Did you use a 25 ml. sample by chance or any other variation?

    If you go back to Pool Math, and use the same figure for current (NOW) and Target, and adjust levels to 12 (50% of shock level based on CYA), PH to 7.5, TA to 80, CH to 500, CYA to 60, and Salt at 3400 with Temp. at 64*, your CSI range is -0.27 and -0.27. (Well within recommended ranges)

    If you plug in the figures again in Pool Math, your CSI will change. Allow your FC to drop down to 50% of shock level before closing. Regarding your SWG, I am not familiar with levels (if they need to be adjusted before closing).

    You can plug in different figures in Pool Math to see what ranges you are in for CSI. This will give you an idea on where you can/can not allow your levels to drift.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    My fill water CH was around 175PPM. I started to use TF-100 this summer last year and when I opened I was using test strips. hence some users have suggested this may be the reason for my CH being high due to inaccurate testing and dosing.


    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    I can't help with CSI.....I don't use it.

    You need to get your pH down soon. You cannot test it accurately now because your FC is over 10 ppm.......that skews the pH test.

    What you can do is Assume the value was 8.2 and set poolmath to calculate a dose down to 7.4. Even if your FC remains high, you can be fairly confident your FC is below 8.0 which is fine.

    The other result that jumps out a little is the CH of 500. That's pretty unusual for the East Coast. What is the CH of your fill water?
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    You are right about the TA. I normally use half values whenever I am not sure of my drop counts. Can you explain how to read the CSI? I did the pool math and I get -0.27 and -0.84. What does the 2nd set of number referenced to?


    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    Question: TA could only be 70 or 80. Unless I am missing something from the TF-100 testing, you multiply by 10. Did you use a 25 ml. sample by chance or any other variation?

    If you go back to Pool Math, and use the same figure for current (NOW) and Target, and adjust levels to 12 (50% of shock level based on CYA), PH to 7.5, TA to 80, CH to 500, CYA to 60, and Salt at 3400 with Temp. at 64*, your CSI range is -0.27 and -0.27. (Well within recommended ranges)

    If you plug in the figures again in Pool Math, your CSI will change. Allow your FC to drop down to 50% of shock level before closing. Regarding your SWG, I am not familiar with levels (if they need to be adjusted before closing).

    You can plug in different figures in Pool Math to see what ranges you are in for CSI. This will give you an idea on where you can/can not allow your levels to drift.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,178

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    My fill water CH was around 175PPM. I started to use TF-100 this summer last year and when I opened I was using test strips. hence some users have suggested this may be the reason for my CH being high due to inaccurate testing and dosing.
    I basically came to the conclusion that your CH levels were due to "calcium scaling" because your pool was new and there was not enough calcium in the pool, raising your levels. There is no other explanation besides testing error, but you are using the TF-100, so this is not the issue at this point. Over time, your CH will drop, especially with probably a bad winter here in NJ of snow and rain.

    You are right about the TA. I normally use half values whenever I am not sure of my drop counts. Can you explain how to read the CSI? I did the pool math and I get -0.27 and -0.84. What does the 2nd set of number referenced to?
    Do not plug in now and target numbers in, just current readings as I did in Pool Math to come up with the CSI. I would not put too much effort of what the figures mean, probably way beyond our knowledge as only a few forum members could answer this one. If your CSI is within ranges, then you are fine. Plug in the current testing figures and your CSI ranges will change. As I wrote previously " If you go back to Pool Math, and use the same figure for current (NOW) and Target, and adjust levels to 12 (50% of shock level based on CYA), PH to 7.5, TA to 80, CH to 500, CYA to 60, and Salt at 3400 with Temp. at 64*, your CSI range is -0.27 and -0.27. (Well within recommended ranges)", this is what you will have. That simple.

    Your CSI changes to a higher level, almost over the normal levels based on water temperature dropping into the 30*'s, but I remember a post from other forum members stating that as the temperature drops, your PH rises. So if your PH would rise to 7.8, even at low water temperatures, you still are fine.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    Got it! Thanks for your help.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    I basically came to the conclusion that your CH levels were due to "calcium scaling" because your pool was new and there was not enough calcium in the pool, raising your levels. There is no other explanation besides testing error, but you are using the TF-100, so this is not the issue at this point. Over time, your CH will drop, especially with probably a bad winter here in NJ of snow and rain.



    Do not plug in now and target numbers in, just current readings as I did in Pool Math to come up with the CSI. I would not put too much effort of what the figures mean, probably way beyond our knowledge as only a few forum members could answer this one. If your CSI is within ranges, then you are fine. Plug in the current testing figures and your CSI ranges will change. As I wrote previously " If you go back to Pool Math, and use the same figure for current (NOW) and Target, and adjust levels to 12 (50% of shock level based on CYA), PH to 7.5, TA to 80, CH to 500, CYA to 60, and Salt at 3400 with Temp. at 64*, your CSI range is -0.27 and -0.27. (Well within recommended ranges)", this is what you will have. That simple.

    Your CSI changes to a higher level, almost over the normal levels based on water temperature dropping into the 30*'s, but I remember a post from other forum members stating that as the temperature drops, your PH rises. So if your PH would rise to 7.8, even at low water temperatures, you still are fine.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Buckeye AZ
    Posts
    807

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    I wouldn't worry about the "target" field of the CSI. Just worry about the NOW field, as that is calculated based on all the other "now" entries you put in. Low pH will bring it down, high CH will bring it up, TA has some effect. Just be between -0.6 and +0.6 and you'll be fine (read the little description to the right of the target field.

    Also, it's probably worth getting some salt test strips if you have CSI concerns. I was adding a lot of MA to keep my pH in the low to mid 7's, to counteract high CH in the fill water. After a year of liquid chlorine, I tested the salt and it's over 3000. Salt also lowers the CSI, so I'm able to keep the pH a little higher.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
    Hayward DE filter, 2HP Ecostar VSP, ProLogic PS-4, GVA actuators
    Cal Pools Wave Force Plus (wall return jets plus 2 floor pop-ups), Venturi Skimmer
    Water sheer, 2 wok pots, bubbler stem on the baja step
    ColorLogic Mutlicolor LED lamp. Taylor 2006+speed stir

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Union, NJ
    Posts
    125

    Re: Can high levels of fc cause a cc increase?

    Thanks for the tips.


    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeChris View Post
    I wouldn't worry about the "target" field of the CSI. Just worry about the NOW field, as that is calculated based on all the other "now" entries you put in. Low pH will bring it down, high CH will bring it up, TA has some effect. Just be between -0.6 and +0.6 and you'll be fine (read the little description to the right of the target field.

    Also, it's probably worth getting some salt test strips if you have CSI concerns. I was adding a lot of MA to keep my pH in the low to mid 7's, to counteract high CH in the fill water. After a year of liquid chlorine, I tested the salt and it's over 3000. Salt also lowers the CSI, so I'm able to keep the pH a little higher.
    20,000 Gallons, 33.9 x 19.9 free form inground plaster pool 7 feet deep with Spillover Spa, Salt Generator (Fusion Soft),Heat Pump, Single Speed 2 HP Pump, D.E. Filter. Zodicac PDA, IQ900RS Controller.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •