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Thread: Filter system question for AG

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    gksipple's Avatar
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    Question Filter system question for AG

    I have a sand filter presently, but am interested in converting to a cartridge type. Can anyone advise on which brand or model would be a good choice for 18ft round with about 8500 gal AG? I currently have a 1.5 HP motor that circulates well, but I am not completely satisfied with the filtration of the sand. We bought the sand filter on the advice of the salesman when we bought the pool package, due to the fact we have many trees. However, we have cut down 5 and are cutting down 2 more that directly affect the pool.

    Any advice or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.




    gksipple

    18ft Seaside 52" Waterworks 1.5HP, 26'sand filter.
    18ft Seaside 52" deep AG, 26" Ecolife Sand Filter, Waterworks 1.5 HP, Permasalt POS.

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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    I would consider keeping the sand filter. What is your reasoning for wanting to change? I have cartridge filters and they are great until I have to spend all day cleaning them. I would love to be able to backwash instead. If it's just not making the water sparkle, you can add a tiny bit of DE or DE replacer to give the water that final polish. If it's algae you've been having trouble with, that's not a filtration issue, that's a chemistry one. Not enough chlorine for the CYA level is almost always the issue with algae.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    I'm certainly no expert on cartridge filters but I'm sure you'll get some suggestions. Have you tried Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter?
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    Yes sir, we did pool school, and added a zeolite ( think that is the store brand of DE) from the beginning...we kept getting confilicting info from the store about when to backwash..and that may be part of the problem..but it seems to me that if they kept us coming in frequently, they make more $$$.
    18ft Seaside 52" deep AG, 26" Ecolife Sand Filter, Waterworks 1.5 HP, Permasalt POS.

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    If you search for zeolite here on TFP, you'll see there are mixed reviews and iirc, more bad than good. Zeolite is actually a sand alternative, not DE, that is pricey and usually more problems than it's worth. I would find a source of pool grade diatomaceous earth and read through that thread on how to use it. It might give you that extra filtration you're looking for. You add DE after you backwash and need to add it again in a sand filter after each backwash. I bought 20 pounds of DE and it will likely last me 10 years...

    Just to dig deeper, are you having issues with water clarity or algae or cloudiness? Or are you just like many pool owners here at TFP with a case of sparklypoolitis?
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    Cloudy for like 6 weeks..phosphates were high, once that was corrected, it cleared up. I'm second guessing my decision on the sand filter with zeolte, as my next door neighbor's 30 ft has a cartridge filter and the same permasalt system yet his is pristine . I'm trying to avoid this for next year, so we can swim all summer.

    Also, the first time we turned on the pump after the build, sand blew into the pool from the bottom return. Turns out, a couple of the laterals were broken, and the pool company came he next day to fix it. I'm thinking there is residual zeolite in the water, as I can see small muddy looking spots on the bottom that are impossible to vacuum out..it is so fine that the vac head just stirs it up, and the filter isn't catching it..
    18ft Seaside 52" deep AG, 26" Ecolife Sand Filter, Waterworks 1.5 HP, Permasalt POS.

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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    I think we have discovered the root of your issue. The words pool $tore. Here at TFP we promote pool owners taking back their pools from the pool $tore guessing game.
    It starts with one of the recommended test kits. Once you have that you are well on your way to a clean, clear pool. While you are waiting for your test kit to arrive you'll want to read Pool School starting with ABC's of Chemistry.

    Come back here and ask lots of questions. And post pics of your pool and equipment.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    Phosphates are fairly irrelevant in a properly sanitized pool. Mostly, pool stores test for them to tell you that you have high phosphates and need to buy expensive products to remove them. Phosphates are indeed food for algae. But what difference does it make if there are no algae around to eat the food? Proper chlorine levels prevent algae regardless of phosphate levels.

    In this case with your sanitation type (Permasalt mineral system NOT recommended here) and concerns with cloudy water, I would bet my last dollar that you have a sanitation issue rather than a filtration issue. The first step you need to take is to get a proper home test kit. See the kits we recommend here: Pool School - Test Kits Compared The TF-100 from tftestkits.net is easily the best value for your money. The Taylor K-2006 is also good but has less reagents. Pool store testing is not convenient (you have to go there and get sold products your pool likely doesn't need) and it's not as accurate as home testing.

    After getting a test kit ordered, spend some time in Pool School starting with ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. Feel free to search this site in the upper right for Permasalt. You'll find some interesting reading about the experiences of other pool owners and what was needed to make things right.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Red face Re: Filter system question for AG

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    Phosphates are fairly irrelevant in a properly sanitized pool. Mostly, pool stores test for them to tell you that you have high phosphates and need to buy expensive products to remove them. Phosphates are indeed food for algae. But what difference does it make if there are no algae around to eat the food? Proper chlorine levels prevent algae regardless of phosphate levels.

    In this case with your sanitation type (Permasalt mineral system NOT recommended here) and concerns with cloudy water, I would bet my last dollar that you have a sanitation issue rather than a filtration issue. The first step you need to take is to get a proper home test kit. See the kits we recommend here: Pool School - Test Kits Compared The TF-100 from tftestkits.net is easily the best value for your money. The Taylor K-2006 is also good but has less reagents. Pool store testing is not convenient (you have to go there and get sold products your pool likely doesn't need) and it's not as accurate as home testing.

    After getting a test kit ordered, spend some time in Pool School starting with ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. Feel free to search this site in the upper right for Permasalt. You'll find some interesting reading about the experiences of other pool owners and what was needed to make things right.


    Thanks for the info! I'll check into it, however, I am still interested in the cartridge systems either way. Do you have a brand or model preference?
    18ft Seaside 52" deep AG, 26" Ecolife Sand Filter, Waterworks 1.5 HP, Permasalt POS.

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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    Do you mind used?
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    For what it's worth ... here are a couple links to the Hayward products:
    Amazon.com: Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot 1-1/2-Inch Pipe Pool Filter: Patio, Lawn Garden
    Amazon.com: Hayward C500 Star-Clear 50-Square-Foot Cartridge Pool Filter: Patio, Lawn Garden
    Hayward Residential and Commercial Pool Products - Compare Products

    I actually have the C1200, but my pool is a bit larger than yours. Very easy to maintain and rinse out. Your pool is a bit smaller, so a smaller filter may be just fine. If you're willing to try a used product as Bob asked, you may find something dirt cheap. ha ha. Get it? Dirt cheap? Filter ... okay. Bad joke. Have a good day.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Filter system question for AG

    I keep my filters clean and they're new this year!! :P
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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