Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

[zamazing]

I've read the sticky on closing an inground pool and have been getting all the supplies together while waiting for the water temperature to drop below 60. The recommended order is to get the pool balanced, raise FC to shock level, add polyquat, and then DRAIN. I have a pretty big 53K gallon pool with a main drain and valves that allow me to operate my pump and circulate the water in the pool even if the water level is below the level of the skimmers. The valves can be turned to draw water only from the main drain, so the water level can be lowered anywhere.

It seems like such a waste of chemicals to shock 53K gallons of water and add polyquat only to drain 15-20K gallons of it a day or two later. I've also wondered about the impact of dumping water with Shock-level FC and polyquat into the environment. Given the size of this pool and the amount of chemicals it will require to get the FC to Shock level (poolmath estimate is 11 gals of 12.5% liquid chlorine and ~3 quarts of polyquat), doesn't it make sense to DRAIN the water first, then raise FC to shock level and add polyquat?

I figure it will be hard to determine the number of gallons left in the pool after draining so poolmath won't be as useful, but I can use the TF-100 to determine my FC levels. Any thoughts?

 

[JVTrain]

So what we're really looking at is a cost savings on not treating up to 20K gallons of water. I'm not sure what your FC increase exact number might be but let's say you need to increase by 15 ppm. For 20K gallons, that's just over 2.5 gallons of 12.5% bleach. I'm not sure what you're paying but for me, that's less than $10. Polyquat-60 is about $25 a quart. Exactly the amount you need for 20K gallons. So a savings of about $35.

If you're comfortable draining that volume first to save the money, go for it. If you have a good estimate of your pool volume now, you can certainly use a pool volume calculator (from Pool Math or otherwise) to get a good number on how much you removed based on the depth change between before and after draining. Calculating the volume removed from the top of a pool is much easier to estimate than the bottom as the outside dimensions of that volume removed typically don't change at all.

 

[MarianParoo]

That seems like a lot of water to drain. How far down do you take it? I only go right below my skimmers and use "duck plugs" on my returns so that I don't have to drain below them.

In deciding whether to do this "drain first" method, remember that it will not be easy to circulate the chemicals without your pump on.

 

[JVTrain]

That seems like a lot of water to drain. How far down do you take it? I only go right below my skimmers and use "duck plugs" on my returns so that I don't have to drain below them.

In deciding whether to do this "drain first" method, remember that it will not be easy to circulate the chemicals without your pump on.

It does seem like a lot. Like my pool, they will be able to run the pump with the pool drained as long as the skimmer valves are closed, pulling only water from the MD. Chemicals are not circulated in the skimmer plumbing but those will be blown out anyway.

Those duck plugs look interesting. I may have to try those next year.

 

[zamazing]

So what we're really looking at is a cost savings on not treating up to 20K gallons of water. I'm not sure what your FC increase exact number might be but let's say you need to increase by 15 ppm. For 20K gallons, that's just over 2.5 gallons of 12.5% bleach. I'm not sure what you're paying but for me, that's less than $10. Polyquat-60 is about $25 a quart. Exactly the amount you need for 20K gallons. So a savings of about $35.

You're right in that its not a big $$ savings. What about the environmental issue? Is it something to be concerned with? In my case, I'm not on a public sewer system so I would either be draining into the septic system or into a big seepage pit in the backyard. Either way, the high FC water and algeacide is going to make its way into the local water table.

 

[zamazing]

That seems like a lot of water to drain. How far down do you take it? I only go right below my skimmers and use "duck plugs" on my returns so that I don't have to drain below them.

I was planning to drain to 2" below the skimmer line and calculated that to be about 15K gallons in my pool. I'm also interested in using the "duck plugs" you mentioned. Do you have a link to them by chance?

In deciding whether to do this "drain first" method, remember that it will not be easy to circulate the chemicals without your pump on.

As JVTrain clarified, I can run the pump to circulate the chemicals with the pool drained by closing the skimmer valves and pulling water from the Main Drain only.

 

[JVTrain]

I believe these are the duck plugs being referenced. Winter Duck Plug (fits 1-1/2" Threads): Anderson Manufacturing Company, Inc.

I would not be overly concerned with the environmental impact of draining the pool in this case. The FC itself would be very quickly consumed by organic material in the soil of the area where it were drained or by would kill a small portion of the bacteria present in your septic. A dose of Rid-X after draining into septic would help. If the pool had a higher salt level with your SWG, this might be detrimental to plants or grass in the area regardless of winterizing chemical balance. CYA is readily consumed by many soil bacteria. The algaecide would also decay fairly quickly, far sooner than it ended up in a stream or aquifer if it were not directly dumped into one. $35 is $35 so if you're comfortable winterizing after lowering the water level, I'd do it.

 

[pabeader]

I"m not so sure about putting 15K into the septic. Most aren't that big... It would just end up going out the drain field along with whatever else it picked up along the way.

 

[zamazing]

I believe these are the duck plugs being referenced. Winter Duck Plug (fits 1-1/2" Threads): Anderson Manufacturing Company, Inc.

I would not be overly concerned with the environmental impact of draining the pool in this case. The FC itself would be very quickly consumed by organic material in the soil of the area where it were drained or by would kill a small portion of the bacteria present in your septic. A dose of Rid-X after draining into septic would help. If the pool had a higher salt level with your SWG, this might be detrimental to plants or grass in the area regardless of winterizing chemical balance. CYA is readily consumed by many soil bacteria. The algaecide would also decay fairly quickly, far sooner than it ended up in a stream or aquifer if it were not directly dumped into one. $35 is $35 so if you're comfortable winterizing after lowering the water level, I'd do it.

Thanks Joel. Good to know both options will work. Looks like were getting another little warm spell here so I have some time to make the call. I am definitely thinking of using the duck plugs. Has there been a forum discussion on their reliability? I'm curious to know if there is any consensus.

 

[MarianParoo]

Yes, there has been discussion about duck plugs. You can search if you want on the search bar at the top. I have been using them since they first came out and have had no issues other than:

1) in the beginning, they were very expensive, now about $6 each on Amazon,
2) they claim they only are good for one season so I used to buy new every year,
3) now I reuse them for several years but am not sure how to determine when I should replace them,
4) the "ice shields" are kinda lame...

 

[zamazing]

Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to order a couple of duck plugs and give them a try.


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[Saturn94]

I also use the duck plugs. They seem to wrk well. Like Marian said, the caps that come with them are useless; they fall off way too easily. I've not heard they're only good for one season. I've used mine several seasons now. I mainly bought them because I don't lower the water level and needed something that could make blowing out the lines a one person job.

To the OP....since you have a way to circulate the water after lowering the water level, I see no reason why you couldn't drain first.