Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    108

    Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    I've read the sticky on closing an inground pool and have been getting all the supplies together while waiting for the water temperature to drop below 60. The recommended order is to get the pool balanced, raise FC to shock level, add polyquat, and then DRAIN. I have a pretty big 53K gallon pool with a main drain and valves that allow me to operate my pump and circulate the water in the pool even if the water level is below the level of the skimmers. The valves can be turned to draw water only from the main drain, so the water level can be lowered anywhere.

    It seems like such a waste of chemicals to shock 53K gallons of water and add polyquat only to drain 15-20K gallons of it a day or two later. I've also wondered about the impact of dumping water with Shock-level FC and polyquat into the environment. Given the size of this pool and the amount of chemicals it will require to get the FC to Shock level (poolmath estimate is 11 gals of 12.5% liquid chlorine and ~3 quarts of polyquat), doesn't it make sense to DRAIN the water first, then raise FC to shock level and add polyquat?

    I figure it will be hard to determine the number of gallons left in the pool after draining so poolmath won't be as useful, but I can use the TF-100 to determine my FC levels. Any thoughts?
    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    So what we're really looking at is a cost savings on not treating up to 20K gallons of water. I'm not sure what your FC increase exact number might be but let's say you need to increase by 15 ppm. For 20K gallons, that's just over 2.5 gallons of 12.5% bleach. I'm not sure what you're paying but for me, that's less than $10. Polyquat-60 is about $25 a quart. Exactly the amount you need for 20K gallons. So a savings of about $35.

    If you're comfortable draining that volume first to save the money, go for it. If you have a good estimate of your pool volume now, you can certainly use a pool volume calculator (from Pool Math or otherwise) to get a good number on how much you removed based on the depth change between before and after draining. Calculating the volume removed from the top of a pool is much easier to estimate than the bottom as the outside dimensions of that volume removed typically don't change at all.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    4,615

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    That seems like a lot of water to drain. How far down do you take it? I only go right below my skimmers and use "duck plugs" on my returns so that I don't have to drain below them.

    In deciding whether to do this "drain first" method, remember that it will not be easy to circulate the chemicals without your pump on.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    That seems like a lot of water to drain. How far down do you take it? I only go right below my skimmers and use "duck plugs" on my returns so that I don't have to drain below them.

    In deciding whether to do this "drain first" method, remember that it will not be easy to circulate the chemicals without your pump on.
    It does seem like a lot. Like my pool, they will be able to run the pump with the pool drained as long as the skimmer valves are closed, pulling only water from the MD. Chemicals are not circulated in the skimmer plumbing but those will be blown out anyway.

    Those duck plugs look interesting. I may have to try those next year.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    108

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    So what we're really looking at is a cost savings on not treating up to 20K gallons of water. I'm not sure what your FC increase exact number might be but let's say you need to increase by 15 ppm. For 20K gallons, that's just over 2.5 gallons of 12.5% bleach. I'm not sure what you're paying but for me, that's less than $10. Polyquat-60 is about $25 a quart. Exactly the amount you need for 20K gallons. So a savings of about $35.
    You're right in that its not a big $$ savings. What about the environmental issue? Is it something to be concerned with? In my case, I'm not on a public sewer system so I would either be draining into the septic system or into a big seepage pit in the backyard. Either way, the high FC water and algeacide is going to make its way into the local water table.
    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    108

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    That seems like a lot of water to drain. How far down do you take it? I only go right below my skimmers and use "duck plugs" on my returns so that I don't have to drain below them.
    I was planning to drain to 2" below the skimmer line and calculated that to be about 15K gallons in my pool. I'm also interested in using the "duck plugs" you mentioned. Do you have a link to them by chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    In deciding whether to do this "drain first" method, remember that it will not be easy to circulate the chemicals without your pump on.
    As JVTrain clarified, I can run the pump to circulate the chemicals with the pool drained by closing the skimmer valves and pulling water from the Main Drain only.
    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    I believe these are the duck plugs being referenced. Winter Duck Plug (fits 1-1/2" Threads): Anderson Manufacturing Company, Inc.

    I would not be overly concerned with the environmental impact of draining the pool in this case. The FC itself would be very quickly consumed by organic material in the soil of the area where it were drained or by would kill a small portion of the bacteria present in your septic. A dose of Rid-X after draining into septic would help. If the pool had a higher salt level with your SWG, this might be detrimental to plants or grass in the area regardless of winterizing chemical balance. CYA is readily consumed by many soil bacteria. The algaecide would also decay fairly quickly, far sooner than it ended up in a stream or aquifer if it were not directly dumped into one. $35 is $35 so if you're comfortable winterizing after lowering the water level, I'd do it.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  8. Back To Top    #8

    TFP Guide

    pabeader's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Dallas Ga
    Posts
    4,064

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    I"m not so sure about putting 15K into the septic. Most aren't that big... It would just end up going out the drain field along with whatever else it picked up along the way. :P
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    108

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    I believe these are the duck plugs being referenced. Winter Duck Plug (fits 1-1/2" Threads): Anderson Manufacturing Company, Inc.

    I would not be overly concerned with the environmental impact of draining the pool in this case. The FC itself would be very quickly consumed by organic material in the soil of the area where it were drained or by would kill a small portion of the bacteria present in your septic. A dose of Rid-X after draining into septic would help. If the pool had a higher salt level with your SWG, this might be detrimental to plants or grass in the area regardless of winterizing chemical balance. CYA is readily consumed by many soil bacteria. The algaecide would also decay fairly quickly, far sooner than it ended up in a stream or aquifer if it were not directly dumped into one. $35 is $35 so if you're comfortable winterizing after lowering the water level, I'd do it.
    Thanks Joel. Good to know both options will work. Looks like were getting another little warm spell here so I have some time to make the call. I am definitely thinking of using the duck plugs. Has there been a forum discussion on their reliability? I'm curious to know if there is any consensus.
    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    4,615

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    Yes, there has been discussion about duck plugs. You can search if you want on the search bar at the top. I have been using them since they first came out and have had no issues other than:

    1) in the beginning, they were very expensive, now about $6 each on Amazon,
    2) they claim they only are good for one season so I used to buy new every year,
    3) now I reuse them for several years but am not sure how to determine when I should replace them,
    4) the "ice shields" are kinda lame...

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    108

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to order a couple of duck plugs and give them a try.


    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Saturn94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    461

    Re: Getting ready to close - can it be done in a different order?

    I also use the duck plugs. They seem to wrk well. Like Marian said, the caps that come with them are useless; they fall off way too easily. I've not heard they're only good for one season. I've used mine several seasons now. I mainly bought them because I don't lower the water level and needed something that could make blowing out the lines a one person job.

    To the OP....since you have a way to circulate the water after lowering the water level, I see no reason why you couldn't drain first.
    20k IG vinyl liner/Aqua Rite SWCG, T-15 cell/Hayward Pro Grid 6020 DE filter/Polaris 280 with booster pump/Hayward Superpump 1 hp/city water/pool installed March 2004

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •