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Thread: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

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    AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    I completed a successful slam just about 6 months ago and know there is no "live" algae in the pool. I have not been able to get the residual junk out of the pool all season.

    Steps I take:
    1. Vacuum ever 3 days or so.
    2. Brush every 3 days after I vacuum.
    3. Pump is on twice per day for (4) hours at a time.

    My issue is that the I only have one skimmer at the top level of the pool. The stuff I'm trying to get out of the pool sinks to the bottom after a few hours and the skimmer does not seem to get rid of it. When ever I vacuum it just completely clouds up the pool. I have been repeating this process for 6 months straight now and it has not gotten better or worse.

    I need to understand a few things:
    (1) does the skimmer actually take "junk" out of the pool or is it solely to circulate the water so algae does not grow?
    (2) is the clouding normal or should the vacuum not be making the pool cloudy?
    (3) Should I still be brushing as well or is this causing the continued issues.

    I'm at a very frustrated point now and need exact steps to clean out my above ground pool. Tools at my disposal are:
    * a hayward pump with 150lbs sand container
    * 1 manual vacuum hose that can reach the entire pool
    * 1 manual vacuum head from the pool store

    I can still use the pool even though it is cloudy, I just want the junk out. How is this done?
    Lucas * South Carolina * 18x33 Oval: 17000 Gallons * AG * Vinyl * Chlorine pucks / Floating Feeder * Well Water * Installed May 2014 * Hayward 18 inch - 150lbs Sand Filter * Hayward Power-flo Matrix Pump - 1.5 HP - 2 Speed * Standard Skimmer * Hayward Aqua Bug * TF-100 Water Test System

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    This thread should generate a lot of conversation. We'll help for sure, but will probably ask you for a few thing to clarify. First, water should not be cloudy. That usually is an indication of organic material living in the water, or something else chemically that may contributing to the cloudiness. A couple things to ask:
    1 - I'm confused about your filtration. You mention a pump with 150lbs of sand, but in your signature it says cartridge filter. Can you clarify please?
    2 - We'll certainly need you to post a full set of test results for us to evaluate.

    This is just a start. We'll have more thoughts later. Like you, I have just one skimmer as my source of circulation. It works fine to catch surface debris. Some items will fall into the pool, get water-logged, and sink (bugs, leaves, etc), but my water is clear and so should yours. We'll help.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    They have a sand filter. Most likely just needs to do the DE. But defiantly check to make sure there isn't algae. Probably isn't but worth checking.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    TS

    Yes - noticed my signature was out dated after I posted. I've updated it with my current pump.

    I'll get exact results in the morning and post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    They have a sand filter. Most likely just needs to do the DE. But defiantly check to make sure there isn't algae. Probably isn't but worth checking.
    Pabeader - what exactly is the DE you are speaking of and how does one do this process? If I do the DE then will vacuuming clean out the dirt on the bottom or will the skimmer get rid of it?
    Lucas * South Carolina * 18x33 Oval: 17000 Gallons * AG * Vinyl * Chlorine pucks / Floating Feeder * Well Water * Installed May 2014 * Hayward 18 inch - 150lbs Sand Filter * Hayward Power-flo Matrix Pump - 1.5 HP - 2 Speed * Standard Skimmer * Hayward Aqua Bug * TF-100 Water Test System

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    Lets do a OCLT tonight and we will go from there. Try to take the water samples after dark and before the sun hits your pool in the morning.

    Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)

    Also run a full set of test results as well.

    We will get your clear and dirt free!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    In regards to the DE comment, I believe this is the page that may come in handy should you need it: Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    Lets do a OCLT tonight and we will go from there. Try to take the water samples after dark and before the sun hits your pool in the morning.

    Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)

    Also run a full set of test results as well.
    FC for the OCLT (evening) portion is right at 3. I'll get the other reading in the morning and do a full test and post those in the AM as well.
    Lucas * South Carolina * 18x33 Oval: 17000 Gallons * AG * Vinyl * Chlorine pucks / Floating Feeder * Well Water * Installed May 2014 * Hayward 18 inch - 150lbs Sand Filter * Hayward Power-flo Matrix Pump - 1.5 HP - 2 Speed * Standard Skimmer * Hayward Aqua Bug * TF-100 Water Test System

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    If it's not too late .....
    When performing the OLCT, remember that it must be done when the sun has dropped – no sunlight on the pool. About 8 hours total is recommended. If you use a SWG or automatic chlorinator, make sure they are turned-off or set to zero. Also, your FC level should be elevated more than normal. Starting (bedtime) FC could be close to your SLAM level, but no lower than 10. Anything less and you may not receive an accurate portrayal of FC loss (by percentage), even if it’s only 1 ppm.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    FC of 3ppm for an OCLT? What is your CYA? I am so confused.... Did I miss something?

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    A cloudy pool is almost always a chemistry issue.

    We really need that complete set of test results including FC, CC, CYA, pH, TA & CH to get a better understanding of the pool.

    Also, I find it's best to raise FC to about 10ppm for an OCLT as mentioned.

    Dom
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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    First, by definition, the SLAM was never completed. Why do you think there is no algae in your pool now?

    I would suggest you start with a better understanding of your pool water. read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School.

    From there, I would go to the SLAM article and read that. Of course, all of our advice is only as good as the test results so posting those will start the ball rolling.

    I know I come across as abrupt but my purpose is not to be mean spirited but rather to get you quickly on track to managing your pool and getting it crystal clear.

    There is no point in an OCLT. You have visible debris in your pool and your pool needs to be SLAMmed. Likewise, there is no point in adding DE. Both these are intended for someone who has crystal clear water and is confirming completion of the SLAM. The debris in your pool means you do not have crystal clear water.
    Dave S.
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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    The debris is coming through the filter. Guess i should have suggested a slimebag or skimmer sock. Instead of DE.


    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    Here are the results.

    FC: 3
    CC: 0
    TC: 3
    CH: 75ppm
    TA: 100
    CYA: 10

    I can tell there is no algae because the pool water is crystal clear until I vacuum plus my FC does not drop from day to day. My problem is just getting the stuff out of the pool and how "not" to stir it up. Any slight movements and it clouds the pool.

    Based on my numbers, what should I be doing?
    Lucas * South Carolina * 18x33 Oval: 17000 Gallons * AG * Vinyl * Chlorine pucks / Floating Feeder * Well Water * Installed May 2014 * Hayward 18 inch - 150lbs Sand Filter * Hayward Power-flo Matrix Pump - 1.5 HP - 2 Speed * Standard Skimmer * Hayward Aqua Bug * TF-100 Water Test System

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    You have visible debris in your pool and your pool needs to be SLAMmed. Likewise, there is no point in adding DE. Both these are intended for someone who has crystal clear water and is confirming completion of the SLAM. The debris in your pool means you do not have crystal clear water.
    This is true! I can keep all results in balance with what they should be, I just can't for the life of me get stuff out of the pool. This is dirt or something and vacuuming does nothing but stir it up.
    Lucas * South Carolina * 18x33 Oval: 17000 Gallons * AG * Vinyl * Chlorine pucks / Floating Feeder * Well Water * Installed May 2014 * Hayward 18 inch - 150lbs Sand Filter * Hayward Power-flo Matrix Pump - 1.5 HP - 2 Speed * Standard Skimmer * Hayward Aqua Bug * TF-100 Water Test System

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    If you are convinced it is dirt, can you vacuum it to waste?

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    If vacuuming only stirs it up, then your filter must not be working properly. When was it last cleaned?

    If dirty water goes into the vacuum, what comes out of the returns back into the pool.......clear water?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    If you are convinced it is dirt, can you vacuum it to waste?
    I can vacuum to waste, but only for about 2 minutes max before the water is below the skimmer. Should I fill the pool completely before vacuuming to waste to get a bit more time?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    If vacuuming only stirs it up, then your filter must not be working properly. When was it last cleaned?

    If dirty water goes into the vacuum, what comes out of the returns back into the pool.......clear water?
    When I look at the return as I am vacuuming I do not see any of the junk come back out through it, just clear water.

    My problem is the moment the vacuum moves over the dirt / junk it just stirs up and clouds the pool. maybe I should just vacuum without the head on the hose? Is that something that is done normally when you have stuff you just can't vacuum up?

    The filter / sand is only about 3 months old. I backwash > then rinse when the pressure gets to a point where it needs it. That is not that often though.
    Lucas * South Carolina * 18x33 Oval: 17000 Gallons * AG * Vinyl * Chlorine pucks / Floating Feeder * Well Water * Installed May 2014 * Hayward 18 inch - 150lbs Sand Filter * Hayward Power-flo Matrix Pump - 1.5 HP - 2 Speed * Standard Skimmer * Hayward Aqua Bug * TF-100 Water Test System

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    Do you vacuum slowly? You said that your water completely clouds when you vacuum. That is not usual.

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    When you vacuum do you go slow? As in "sneak" up on the dirt? When I have to vacuum some fine stuff I have to go SLOW to make sure I do not disturb it.

    Have you tried DE in your filter to help catch this fine stuff? Here is a link.

    Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: AGP - Slam successful 6 months ago - How do I get the junk out.

    I've not "perfected" my vacuum techinque yet, but do go slow. With this stuff it just seems that it is that super fine stuff that no matter how slow you go just clouds up and over the past few months has built up to be an insane amount.

    There is a fine layer about 1/16 in thick across the entire bottom of the pool when it settles except for where the return blows water back in where the pump is on. That area of the pool floor is clear and what I want the rest of the pool to look like.

    I've just found this link: How to vacuum an above ground pool with no vacuum! - YouTube that showcases the siphon method (bypassing the filter completely & apologies if we are not allowed to post external links - I just feel this will be the answer to my problems.) With this method I can bypass the filter / skimmer completely and vacuum to waste to my hearts content. I'm going to continue this specific technique over the next month (I know I will have to put a lot of water back in) and hopefully this will get enough of the fine stuff out that I can then normally vacuum after that moving forward.

    Let me know your thoughts on the siphoning method and any issues with it if there are any.
    Lucas * South Carolina * 18x33 Oval: 17000 Gallons * AG * Vinyl * Chlorine pucks / Floating Feeder * Well Water * Installed May 2014 * Hayward 18 inch - 150lbs Sand Filter * Hayward Power-flo Matrix Pump - 1.5 HP - 2 Speed * Standard Skimmer * Hayward Aqua Bug * TF-100 Water Test System

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