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Thread: Few Basic Questions

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    Few Basic Questions

    Now that the pool is covered and snow will be here shortly, its never too early to prepare for next year.

    I've read a lot here and its been enlightening. But still have some questions:

    1. Why is algaecide not recommended?

    2. Why is clarifier not recommended?

    3. What should the level of sand be in a Hayward sand filter (the instructions don't show a level)?

    4. So, pH isn't testable above FC=10. Why can't a laboratory type pH meter be used?

    5. Are auto bottom cleaners (like Aqua Bug) OK to use?

    5B. If yes, can they be left on all the time?

    TIA

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    pabeader's Avatar
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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    Most algaecides have metals and other stuff and really don't do what they advertise. They are fine, for limited use for specific uses, like closing at the end of the year.
    Clarifiers, if used properly, are fine. The correct use for them has nothing to do with algae. Where they are useful is to clear that last little bit of cloudiness at the end of a swamp cleanup.
    There really isn't a level for sand, you put in the amount that it's calls for. Like 100lbs. or 150lbs. Something like that. Post the model# and we can be more helpful
    Laboratory units are fine as long as they are kept calibrated and properly maintained. There are ways around the 10ppm FC issues if really needed. It's covered in the extended instructions for the different tests, here on the site.
    Lots of folks like the aquabugs and other cleaners like that. Lots of good reading about them here. Just use caution, and check it for hidden algae once and a while.
    I read folks go both ways. Some leave in some remove. I think it depends on the size of the pool.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Few Basic Questions

    1. Why is algaecide not recommended?

    The only algaecide recommended here is Polyquat-60. Algaecides can not clear a pool once algae has taken hold. They should be thought of as a secondary sanitizer and only as insurance in case your FC accidentally drops too low. In any case, they are not necessary.

    2. Why is clarifier not recommended?

    Because most clarifiers and flocs have very specific uses and dosages. They are not suited for regular use. They are easy to screw up and, in some situations, can severely clog your filter. If your water is properly chlorinated and your filter is working, there is almost never any need to use clarifiers or flocs.

    3. What should the level of sand be in a Hayward sand filter (the instructions don't show a level)?

    I'm a DE guy. Sorry, no answer.


    4. So, pH isn't testable above FC=10. Why can't a laboratory type pH meter be used?

    It is testable it's just not very common to do so. There are techniques for getting around hi FC. It's just not normally needed.

    Electronic meters will work. But most electronic meters need regular cleaning and calibration to stay accurate. As well, there is almost never any need for the precision that electronic pH meters afford. +/-0.2 pH units is perfectly acceptable.

    5. Are auto bottom cleaners (like Aqua Bug) OK to use?

    Not sure how to answer this? Why would using one be a concern? Most are designed for any pool surface.

    5B. If yes, can they be left on all the time?

    I do. Some people don't like the look of them going all day. It's more a subjective matter of preference. Leaving them in all the time does expose them constantly to FC so I know mine is probably wearing out faster than is normal.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    Algaecide is a preventive measure not a "killer" as the "-cide" suffix indicates. Chlorine kills algae, so as long as the chlorine level is adequate, algaecide is redundant. As pabeader said, it has its place, like closing (I didn't use it this year. I'll see what happens in May) and vacations, when no one is available to tend to the water.

    Clarifiers and Floc are not compatible with cartridge filters. Even in filters with sand media, they should be used sparingly, IMO, and only while the multi-port valve is set to recirculate and/or waste, until you can vacuum. More often than not, chlorine is adequate to clear up the water, but some people have had great success using them. On the other hand, some not so much.

    pabearer answer the rest of your questions. Your filter will say how much sand you need?
    Chris
    17' x 35' outdoor in-ground Grecian shaped w/ vinyl liner. ≈ 21,000 gallons. Hayward S-200 Sand Filter and 1 HP Hayward Super-pump. Other Accessories: slide, light, ladder, fiberglass stairs, TF-100. Baquacil Conversion - June 2015, SLAM How-to, Chlorine/CYA Chart

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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    I have had many customers who want the best for their pool. They dont mind spending the money and i have had this conversation with them many times over. I get it, and really i wish i had more customers like you, with all the best of intentions. I love that you are looking seriously at doing whatever it takes to make your pool fantastic. But algaecide, clarifier and expensive testing equipment are all nice, but you just dont need them.

    As i put it "i can sell you all that junk if you like, but i would much rather you spend it on a case of beer you can enjoy while using your pool".
    No pool, i am just here to help.

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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Not sure how to answer this? Why would using one be a concern? Most are designed for any pool surface.

    5B. If yes, can they be left on all the time?

    I do. Some people don't like the look of them going all day. It's more a subjective matter of preference. Leaving them in all the time does expose them constantly to FC so I know mine is probably wearing out faster than is normal.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Since they connect to the skimmer, does that in effect stop the skimming action?
    If so, doesn't dirt collect on the water's surface?

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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    Some folks have a separate pipe for suction side pool cleaners. Other wise you will have to remove the connection after use so the skimmer can do it's job.

    It would be very helpful if you could go ahead and fill out a signature. Include any and all info you know about your equipment and pool.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    Hi Jim,

    I see we're practically neighbors. I just read your threads on the algae problems & wish I had seen it sooner. We could have met up & put our two heads together. Contact me if you have any problems next year. BTW - Riverside Chemical sells 12.5 % liquid chlorine for $15 for 5 gals.

    Mike
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    I have a Hayward sand filter and the recommended amount of sand is a weight of properly sized sand. But you're just probably wondering if your current filter which you maybe did not fill with sand yourself has the proper amount based on checking the height. Well, I filled my filter S270T, with the recommended 350 pounds of sand. My sand level was at about 2/3 full based on height with the new fill. I have not checked the level of the sand recently but I'm sure it's still pretty close to the same level as I have not had issues with sand passing the filter and because I had about 20 gallons of water in the filter before filling with sand, there probably wasn't a lot of settling.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Few Basic Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1162 View Post
    Hi Jim,

    I see we're practically neighbors. I just read your threads on the algae problems & wish I had seen it sooner. We could have met up & put our two heads together. Contact me if you have any problems next year. BTW - Riverside Chemical sells 12.5 % liquid chlorine for $15 for 5 gals.

    Mike
    Hi to you too.

    After comparing prices, on a per pound basis Riverside is the cheapest in town. Its on my way home from work too....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    I have a Hayward sand filter and the recommended amount of sand is a weight of properly sized sand. But you're just probably wondering if your current filter which you maybe did not fill with sand yourself has the proper amount based on checking the height. Well, I filled my filter S270T, with the recommended 350 pounds of sand. My sand level was at about 2/3 full based on height with the new fill. I have not checked the level of the sand recently but I'm sure it's still pretty close to the same level as I have not had issues with sand passing the filter and because I had about 20 gallons of water in the filter before filling with sand, there probably wasn't a lot of settling.
    Actually I DID fill it myself. And I DID put in the required pounds. I had algae issues this year, which I thought might be attributed to the filter. When I disassembled it the level seemed low and thus I lost some, hence my question.

    Since this site does not recommend replacing the sand, I was trying to determine a correct level so I'd know how much to add.

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