Problem with Sta-Rite SR400NA Heater

[grifftek]

I just replaced the old hayward H400idl2 heater with a used Sta-Rite SR400NA Heater. After checking the new plumbing for leaks and purging all the air I fired the heater and everything was running normally. After running for about 3 hours I had wife check on heater and she claimed that the temp display was showing 112 while it was running. The temperature was set at 90 deg F and initial water temp was 82.

So this sounds strange, the heater should have shut down and not been running if the temp was 112.

She checked the heater again after a few hours and the heater was off and the display said 90. I had her bump the temp up to 92 and the heater fired and ran normally. When I returned from work the heater was off and the service heater light was on. Display showed 91 deg.

I checked the led's under the keypad and there were no diagnostic lights lit. Followed trouble shooting procedure and no lights illuminated after a 5 second power off and then on with the set temp at 93 deg. The heater fired normally.

What I notice after playing with it for nearly an hour as long as the set temp is 3 or 4 degrees higher than the current water temp the heater fires and runs normally.
If the set temp is 1 degree higher it seems like heater will turn on and off then there is a fault when it does not light for whatever reason.

After searching the forum and the internet I see that it seems like there are a lot of problems with the temp sensor (and incorrect temperature readings on the display). I wonder if the output is erratic and it's causing some issues with the controller as it closes in on the setpoint?

When the heater fails to ignite I did see that there were 3 flashes coming from the control module indicating ignition lockout. Again there were no diagnostic led lit on the control board below the control panel.

I have 1 1/2" commercial grade gas meter with 1 1/2" gas line approximately 20ft feeding the pool heater. There is less than 18" of 3/4 gas pipe between the 1 1/2" pool heater feed line and the heater. There should be plenty of gas volume available to the heater under all circumstances. The rest of the house has a 1 1/2 main feed line with branches feeding the rest of the gas appliances. The tankless water heater is fed from the 1 1/2" main feed line at the end of the line. I have never had any issues with any of the other appliances with our without the pool heater, BBQ, dryer and tankless running at the same time.

If anyone has any ideas Id appreciate the feedback.

Thanks
Bill Griffin

 

[Pool Clown]

If you had called me with this issue and i came out, the first thing i would check is to confirm that the heater was plumbed in the right direction (inlet/outlet). That is something you can do on your own. No disrespect, it happens, i think every tech goofs once in a while.

I know i do...

You said that I (you) just replaced the heater. Did YOU replace it, or did you have it replaced? And, it is new? If so, call Pentair. They can refer you to someone locally to come out and look at it.

NEVERMIND! I just read your post again, used! Change the temp sensor. Make sure the new one you get looks like it is stainless steel and not brass.

 

[ps0303]

Like Pool Clown said, first make sure you didn't plumb it backwards. If that checks out ok, then possible temp sensor issue.

 

[grifftek]

confirm that the heater was plumbed in the right direction (inlet/outlet).

I responded earlier after the first response but for some reason I do not see the response here...

While i'm not immune to DA Mistakes (god knows i've made enough of them in my life) ive learned to double check, triple check and check again. After reading the post I referred to my photos and the manual again to check again.....

The heater is not plumbed backwards, the inlet (top connection) on the heater is hooked to the outlet of the filter (with a check valve in line) The output of the filter pump is connected to the inlet of the filter. The outlet of the heater (bottom connection on the heater) is is connected to the pipe that returns water to the pool.

I had an appointment after work today so I wasn't able to do much with the heater. I did fire it up and it started normally and once it sucked the hot water out of the pool and the sensor read the pool water temp the heater shut off normally after only running a couple minutes at the most. I would say this is completely normal operation.

This is not what it was doing yesterday when it ran most of the day.

I will order the sensor and replace it and see where we go from there.

Thanks
Bill

 

[grifftek]

Hi

I found a burst of energy and went out in the utility yard and finished up the wiring and water temp sensor installation in the heater inlet line.

Please forgive the low quality images, they were taken after 10pm while my cell battery was dead and I could not use the built in flash.


You can see 6 pictures here.

I wired my aqualogic control to the 3 wire (only using pool inputs as I don't have a spa) external control inputs.

The StaRite heater works differently than the hayward h400idl2 in that while it disables the control panel buttone, it still uses the sta rite internal temp sensor to control; the heater and only uses the aqualogic control to signal the heater when to start heating. Currently I have set the starite temp to 91 degrees and the aqualogic control to 88 degrees. This seems to effectively leaves the Aqualogic control in charge of turning on the pool heater and turning it off when it reaches the temp setpoint which is lower than the set temp in the starite.

My initial testing shows that this works but maybe there is a better way?

The current setup fully utilizes the aqualogics automation to turn on and off the heater and provide heater cool down function as well as heater extend (filter pump on high) when the heater is on.

You may notice that the 1 1/2 inch gas line extends 41.5" towards the wall and is not supported. I intend to provide a support stanchion to carry the weight of the gas pipe near the end where it is unsupported.

Again, all support and constructive criticism is appreciated.

Thanks

Bill Griffin

 

[ps0303]

Hi

The StaRite heater works differently than the hayward h400idl2 in that while it disables the control panel buttone, it still uses the sta rite internal temp sensor to control; the heater and only uses the aqualogic control to signal the heater when to start heating.
Thanks

Bill Griffin

Not true about the Sta Rite working differently. Don't you have a temp prob in the outlet pipe of the pump? If so, then you should first set the control pad on the heater to either the pool or spa setting, set the temp all the way up to 104, and then use the Aqualogic to control the on/off of the heater and the temp.

I'm not sure how you actually wired the heater but you should have used the jumper wire inside the unit where the fuse is. It's a two wire connector. You would still do the same settings on the heater as I mentioned above and the Aqualogic would turn the heater on/off with the Aqualogic controlling the temp.

BTW, all heaters work the same way with an automation system. The automation system controls the on/off and the temp. Unless of course some part is missing in the automation system.

 

[grifftek]

Not true about the Sta Rite working differently. Don't you have a temp prob in the outlet pipe of the pump?

I don't believe that I have a temp problem in the outlet of the pipe that I have noticed. In my previous post I stated that my wife told me the display was reading 112 degrees and the heater was still on and heating the water. If it was actually reading 112 deg I think it should have shut itself off. later in the day she checked it and the pool had reached the set temp and the heater was off. Raising the setpoint started the heater again as it should have. At some point there was a service heater light on when I returned home from work.

While watching the unit for almost 2 hours I noticed that as the water temp approaches the set point temp, the heater cycles on and off and eventually generated a service heater fault when the heater failed to ignite. I also noticed the icm flashing 3 times indicating ignition lockout.

I have not seen this behavior since and the heater seems to be working as it should. But it hasn't been running for hours on end, only the 15 to 30 minutes I have forced it to run by adjusting the set temp up and down.






If so, then you should first set the control pad on the heater to either the pool or spa setting, set the temp all the way up to 104, and then use the Aqualogic to control the on/off of the heater and the temp.



OK, as stated in my post early this morning, this is what I have done, while I didn't set the starite to 104 degrees, I did set it 3 degrees above the automation controller set point temp. ( I figured that I don't want a failure in the automation controller and have the heater actually heat the pool to 104 degrees, 91 degrees seemed more reasonable) This seems to allow the aqualogic controller to control the temperature just fine as well as its built in safety features (pump extend, heater cool down etc.) I think having the heater temp control in the heater as a backup to the automation controller temp setting is better than the previous hayward heater that seemed to be brain dead when in remote control mode.

I'm not sure how you actually wired the heater but you should have used the jumper wire inside the unit where the fuse is. It's a two wire connector. You would still do the same settings on the heater as I mentioned above and the Aqualogic would turn the heater on/off with the Aqualogic controlling the temp.




BTW, all heaters work the same way with an automation system. The automation system controls the on/off and the temp. Unless of course some part is missing in the automation system.

What I noticed that is different between the hayward h400idl2 heater and the starite sr400na is that when the hayward is placed into remote control mode, the user has no access to the onboard temperature controls so therefore no need to set the heater temp higher than the automation controller temperature. In fact, I believe that when in remote mode, the display always showed a bo code indicating it was in remote control mode.

I was simply stating the fact that there was clearly a difference between the 2 heaters in this regard. I posted this because I may have missed a setting something in the manual that I printed out or possibly the information was omitted from the manual and the professionals that deal with these heaters may know to place the heater into "remote control mode" that an end user may not know.

Again, I appreciate the help and feedback, It gives me a better understanding of how these heaters work.


Thanks

Bill

 

[ps0303]

As with most heaters no, when you are in remote mode on some you don't have access to the panel on the heater panel. That is why you set everything up on the heater first, and then set it to remote control. Even on the Hayward, you would set the temp on the heater to the highest, 104, for both pool and spa. Then you automation controls the on/off and the temp. Yes the Hayward would show bo, bypass operation. If you didn't set the temp to the highest temp on the heater, once the heater arrived at the set temp on the heater, it would shut it off even if the automation system was still calling for heat. All that was happening is that you couldn't make any adjustments on the heaters front panel.

You should go back to your heater and open it up and inside the silver box where there is a fuse, you should have a jumper wire. Remove that wire and then wire(2 wire) the automation system to that. Set your heater to pool or spa and set the heater temp to 104. Now your automation system controls the on/off and the temp. That is the correct way to set it up for your system.

 

[grifftek]

Thanks for the explanation, makes more sense now.

"You should go back to your heater and open it up and inside the silver box where there is a fuse, you should have a jumper wire. Remove that wire and then wire(2 wire) the automation system to that. Set your heater to pool or spa and set the heater temp to 104. Now your automation system controls the on/off and the temp. That is the correct way to set it up for your system."


"Setting the heater pool / spa temp to 104 degrees seems to be missing from Section 2: Installation Remote control connections on page 29 of the sta-rite manual.

I found a nice connection diagram and drawing in the Aqualogic installation manual. I will upload a pic of it below.

I initially wired the heater output from the aqualogic to the 2 fireman's switch terminals that had the yellow jumper. the heater did not come on when the aqualogic was calling for heat. When I get home I will move the wires from the 3-wire external control interface screw terminals on the Operating Control PCB. This will be really easy as I already have 1/4" fastons crimped on the wires inside the control box. Its quite possible that I didn't have the temperature controls maxed out and this is why the heater did not fire.

Once I have this connected and working this way, do I move the jumper on the operating control PCB to disable the pool and spa buttons? In the manual, it does not mention disabling the buttons in section 4a on page 29. It only mentions moving the jumper in section 4b when using the 3 wire control option.

I would prefer to disable the pool and spa buttons on the heater so they don't inadvertently get changed from someone messing with the heater.

Question: When is it appropriate to use the 3 wire input control connections? I imagine its when there is one heater supplying both a pool and a spa with an external automation controller. Why is the fireman's switch input preferred over this 3 wire connection?

 

[grifftek]

Here are pages 29 and 30 from the sta-rite manual as well as teh section from the aqualogic manual.

This may help someone in the future when searching for info on remote controlling their heater.

 

[ps0303]

I never worry about the keypad. No one should be messing with since the automation system does it all. I just add the two wire connection and set the heater temp and let it roll. Yes the three wire is if you have a pool and spa and you want to set a temp for the pool and one for the spa.