Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: First time closing pool

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    First time closing pool

    This is the first year for closing the pool. I've read the pool school article on closing an AGP. My question is, what would be the effect of closing before the temp gets down to 60 deg? My CYA level is currently pretty low (<20) and I'm leaving the solar cover off to allow the temp to drop, however it's really going through the liquid chlorine right now. Appreciate any help. Water temp is currently 74 deg and has been pretty steady the last 5 days or so. Also, should I use Polyquat or just liquid chlorine? Thanks.
    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,946

    Re: First time closing pool

    I would recommend adding just a little stabilizer to keep you at 30 ppm. That not only protects FC from the sun, but also protects your liner as well. You definitely want the temp below 60 because it drastically reduces the growth of an organic material. Close too early and it's just an algae bath. As for using Polyquat ... it's a personal choice. Some use it regularly each year, many don't. Those who do not bring their FC up to SLAM/Shock level then close & cover right away. The FC also holds much better in the colder water. You might also want to include your location under your username as it will help others know what part of the country you are in. Some other members near your area may have some specific suggestions pertinent to you. Hope this helps. Have a nice evening.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  3. Back To Top    #3

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,177

    Re: First time closing pool

    however it's really going through the liquid chlorine right now.
    Please explain in detail exactly what this means. How much chlorine? What strength? How often?

    Is the water clear? Any signs of algae?

    One of the most important items is the test kit. What test kit are you using to gather your information? Please raise CYA as per recommendation from Texas Splash. It is possible that you will need to clear up the pool before closing. Liquid chlorine is what you should be using and during closing, most people recommend Poly-Quat as well.

    Pool School - Closing (Winterizing) Your Above Ground Pool
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: First time closing pool

    I would recommend raising the CYA to 30 ppm as well. Next summer, I'd even say that 40 ppm would be better to limit chlorine losses. If you wait until the water is firmly below 60 degrees, you'll have a much greater chance of opening to an algae free pool in the spring.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    Ok, I use a TF-100 test kit and I use the DPD test to measure the chlorine. Right now it's losing about 8ppm per day. Air temp has been highs in the mid 70s and lows in the 50s. I'm using 10% liquid chlorine, and I'm adding once per day in the evening. It was losing maybe half that when we had the solar cover on, but I want to leave it off to allow the temp to drop so I can close it. I hadn't measured the CYA in probably several months until 2 days ago. I thought it was slightly lower than 30ppm, but I guess I was wrong. Water is very clear, no sign of algae. I've probably been over-chlorinating, since I was assuming the CYA was higher than it actually was. I was unable to get to a pool store today before they closed, so I will try to get some more CYA tomorrow to add. None of the box stores are carrying it at this time of year.
    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  6. Back To Top    #6

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,177

    Re: First time closing pool

    8 ppm of FC per day is excessive. 4 ppm per day with the cover is also excessive. Have you performed the overnight test to determine how much you are losing? Have you raised your CYA to at least to rule out the chlorine loss due to low stabilizer levels? Even though your water is clear and there is no visible signs of algae does not mean that you do not have all the "bad stuff" that eats away at chlorine.

    It is recommended that you add enough bleach at night to bring up to SLAM level. Test the water 1 hour after adding the bleach and at night time. The next morning, test the water again. If you have lost 1 - 1.5 ppm or less, then you could be loosing everything to the sun based on low CYA levels. Anything more than this means you have algae (not visible) and/or low CYA levels. From this point, I would recommend increasing your CYA level to at least 30-40 to rule this out. Because of low CYA levels, you kind of have to rule this out first. Even though not recommended, maybe using the liquid is best in this case.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    Catanzaro,

    I understand what you are recommending as far as the OCLT to rule out algae, which I will plan to do tonight. I also plan to add CYA since I know it is low. I am confused about your last comment about liquid chlorine not being recommended. Your earlier post indicates it is what I should be using, and I thought it is the mainstay of the BBB method for those not using SWCGs. Perhaps I'm reading your post wrong.
    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  8. Back To Top    #8

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,177

    Re: First time closing pool

    Quote Originally Posted by hofmanns View Post
    Catanzaro,

    I understand what you are recommending as far as the OCLT to rule out algae, which I will plan to do tonight. I also plan to add CYA since I know it is low. I am confused about your last comment about liquid chlorine not being recommended. Your earlier post indicates it is what I should be using, and I thought it is the mainstay of the BBB method for those not using SWCGs. Perhaps I'm reading your post wrong.
    From this point, I would recommend increasing your CYA level to at least 30-40 to rule this out. Because of low CYA levels, you kind of have to rule this out first. Even though not recommended, maybe using the liquid is best in this case.
    Here, we always recommend the CYA that dissolves slowly and takes a week to register in your testing. Because time is of the essence, the liquid CYA will register almost immediately (within 24 hours), but is about 50% more expensive (on line) and double the price at the PB. The liquid CYA is not usually recommended because of cost, but in certain situations it is needed because of time.

    Amazon.com : Natural Chemistry Liquid Swimming Pool Stabilizer and Conditioner - 1 Gallon : Swimming Pool Chlorine : Patio, Lawn Garden

    The price has even dropped more. Please post a full set of testing results and some pictures of the pool if you can. Pictures are great! Another item noticed is the above ground pool. I can not stress enough brushing the pool more often. Circulation has a lot to do with problems if the pool is properly chlorinated, and this could be why you are using a lot of bleach and you will confirm this in the overnight testing.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    Now it's clear. You were talking about liquid CYA not liquid chlorine. Thank you.


    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    What is the recommended frequency for brushing the pool? I didn't realize I should be doing this regularly I thought I only had to do it if I had an algae problem.


    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  11. Back To Top    #11

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,177

    Re: First time closing pool

    Quote Originally Posted by hofmanns View Post
    What is the recommended frequency for brushing the pool? I didn't realize I should be doing this regularly I thought I only had to do it if I had an algae problem.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    During a SLAM, you could be brushing up to 3X daily. Once the SLAM is over, it all depends on the pool and circulation system. As you are testing your water, if you test higher CC than .5, this is an indication that algae may be coming soon. I would probably recommend brushing 3X weekly, and then possibly scaling back if you can. If a daily log is kept after testing, one will eventually find what works for his/her pool. (That simple).

    With my pool, I only brush and vacuum one time weekly. Sometimes, it is every two weeks, but no longer. Although, my system has oversized plumbing, filter, and pump. I have 2 skimmers, 2 main drains and 8 returns (4 of them 360 degree rotating heads). Everything is spaced out properly, picking up water and returning water where need be. It is like a whirlpool, therefore the liquid chlorine stays mixed properly. The downside is rising PH. Chances are that this type of system is over-kill and was not needed. More things could go wrong with this long term.

    If your pool has been chlorinated properly and you have good circulation, chances are that the "lack of brushing" is what caused this issue. Low CYA would just burn off more liquid chlorine.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    None of the local pool stores carry liquid CYA. One of the stores offered to show me how to make liquid CYA from powder using hot water. I'm a little skeptical. Anyone have experience with this? And does it work? Or am I better off just putting it in as powder? I plan to do the OCLT tonight then start with the CYA tomorrow.


    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    I've never had the CC register more than 0.5 for this pool, however the last time I measured it was probably a week or so ago. I was measuring it every other day for the majority of the season. The only other test I've done recently is for TA which showed 150.


    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  14. Back To Top    #14

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    2,177

    Re: First time closing pool

    Quote Originally Posted by hofmanns View Post
    None of the local pool stores carry liquid CYA. One of the stores offered to show me how to make liquid CYA from powder using hot water. I'm a little skeptical. Anyone have experience with this? And does it work? Or am I better off just putting it in as powder? I plan to do the OCLT tonight then start with the CYA tomorrow.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Do not mix hot water with powder CYA. If you use the powder CYA, it must dissolve slowly in a sock (in front of a return), otherwise please order the conditioner on Amazon. Keep us posted on overnight. Please post results, with times, additions, readings, etc.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: First time closing pool

    It shouldn't take more than a day or two for the granular CYA to dissolve in a sock, either in front of a return or in your skimmer basket if the pump is running 24/7. If you can squeeze the sock every hour or so it will speed up the process.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    Ok, the results are in for the OCLT. At 6:30pm last night it was 2.5ppm FC, 0.5ppm CC and 7.8pH. I added 112oz of 10% Liquid Chlorine and some Muriatic Acid to bring down the pH. My in-laws next door added some water to bring up the level during the next hour, so I gave it another hour to mix in. At 8:30 the FC was at 7.5ppm and CC at 0.5ppm. I didn't feel the FC was high enough, so I added another 46oz of 10% Liquid Chlorine. At 9:45pm I was at 10.0 FC and 0.0 CC. Then this morning at 6:00am it was at 9.5 FC and 0.5 CC and 7.7pH. This morning I put 21oz of granular CYA in a pouch in the skimmer. This should be enough to add 15ppm. Other tests are as follows: CYA measured on 9/28 was less than 20 (lowest that will register on the TF-100 test). TA was 160 (also on 9/28). CH measured 9/30 was 240.
    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    Here's a few pics taken last night at about 6:45 after I put the first round of chemical in.






    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,946

    Re: First time closing pool

    Good morning! My work computer wouldn't let me see you latest pics, but your actions taken in post #16 look good. Congrats on passing the OCLT. Now you can let that stabilizer dissolve and give it a few days if possible before closing and/or testing again to confirm it's where you wanted it, and so you know what FC to maintain. Very good. Have a great day.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    15

    Re: First time closing pool

    CYA was all dissolved when I got home from work, and I only lost 2ppm FC today! Much better. Does the CYA register immediately on the test as long as it's all dissolved? I measured right at 30ppm CYA this evening. It will probably be another week before the water gets cold enough to close though. Thank you all for your help!
    -hofmanns

    21' x 54" AGP w/abt 10500 gal.
    Hayward Sand Filter and Pump
    Installed Early summer 2015

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,946

    Re: First time closing pool

    I would check the CYA next week just to make sure. It usually takes a few days to fully register on the test after dissolving. I can see the pic now. Water looks fabulous. Good luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •