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Thread: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    Found an online article that says you can convert Baking Soda to washing soda this way:

    pour baking soda onto a cookie sheet or glass pan, spread it out very thin

    Heat in the oven at 400 degrees for 15 minutes

    remove it, give it a good stir around

    Bake another 15 minutes

    take it out let it cool...boom PH UP

    I might try that tonight..I have some baking soda I don't need but do need about 1 cup of ph up/washing soda
    to get my ph at 7.5 (accidentally put too much acid in...sitting at 7.2 temporarily )
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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    Sounds like it would work. Might want to mix some water in with the baking soda to make a paste-like consistency and bake until completely dry again. Have not tried it myself.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    the instructions say to not wet it as the goal of the chemical conversion process is to remove the moisture & the carbon dioxide.

    and that "you'll know it's converted successfully when the texture and consistency is not like baking soda"
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    It's one of the calcination stages of the Solvay Process -

    2 NaHCO3 → Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2

    Typically it is conducted at ~230C (~450F). These types of calcination reactions are usually performed in dry atmospheres or else you won't get a complete reaction. I suppose you can do it in your oven but you probably shouldn't expect it to be pure soda ash but a combination of soda ash and sodium bicarb. So you'll have to take what PoolMath tells you with a bit of margin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I'd do it in a pyrex dish or ceramic cookware to avoid any possible metal contamination from a cookie sheet. Keep it away from anything aluminum as aluminum and washing soda do not mix.
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    Agent99's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    You might wait a week and and see if your pH drifts up naturally. I know you don't have plaster, which is the cause of my contant pH rise, but maybe it will go up a bit. Or try doing a buncha cannonballs into the water to increase aeration! I once made an aerator using PVC with holes drilled into it and my air-compressor.

    Just some other things to think about.
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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    no way I would use a cookie sheet haha I thought about that and the 2 i have always make a noise
    and contort on opposite ends when they get hot...baking soda would fly up and be all over the bottom of my oven

    I'm just a little nervous about having my ph at 7.2 with a new liner...I want it at 7.5 at all times for longevity

    I'd rather not pay the pool store for a big container of ph up i don't need.
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    Walmart sells Arm & Hammer washing soda, any near you? It's the same as pH-Up


    Matt
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    From an msds
    "Hazardous Combustion Products
    - When heated to decomposition Sodium Bicarbonate emits acrid smoke, fumes, and carbon dioxide and sodium oxides."

    Can you post all chemistry readings and your source of chlorine?

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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    I can't imagine that you could do this for that much less than the cost of Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda that was mentioned. At Walmart, Arm & Hammer Baking Soda is $2.24/4 = $0.56 per pound while Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda is $3.97/(55/16) = $1.15 per pound.

    2NaHCO3 ---> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2(g)
    Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) ---> Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) + Water + Carbon Dioxide Gas

    So two pounds of sodium bicarbonate makes 1*(105.9888 g/mole Na2CO3)/(84.0066 g/mole NaHCO3) = 1.2608 pounds of sodium carbonate. So buying $0.56 for 1 pound of sodium bicarbonate produces 1.2608/2 = 0.6304 pounds of sodium carbonate. If you bought washing soda directly that amount would be 0.6304*$1.15 = $0.725 so 29% more expensive, BUT you need to factor in your energy costs and your time for the conversion. Is it really worth it?
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    I didn't know where it could be found locally. My sister in law who makes soap brought some wash soda and told me the Fred Meyer nearby has it.

    I did try the oven conversion for fun..no dice waste of time.

    I was determined not to hit up the pool store heh heh
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    Just add the baking soda and your ph will be good. If your ph is constantly low, then your TA is too low.

    Alternatively, you can use Borax to raise the ph.

    If your TA is ok, your ph will recover on it's own due to carbon dioxide offgassing.

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever make PH UP (wash soda) from Baking soda?

    New pool/fresh fill James.

    Everything is balanced now.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
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