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Thread: Using baking soda to raise TA

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    Using baking soda to raise TA

    I live in Phoenix, AZ; I use liquid chlorine in my 12000 gal pool for sanitation and algae control. The chlorine is ph. high so I use muriatic acid to keep the ph. in the correct range.

    During the hot summer months I add chlorine and acid on a daily basis.

    Constantly adding muriatic acid seems to be driving my TA down. I have been using baking soda to raise the TA back up to correct range and this works well.

    The question I have is, will there come a point in time when I have added so much baking soda to my pool that I will need to correct that problem?

    In other words, can a person get to much baking soda in his swimming pool?
    12000 gallon pebbletec pool,Built 2008, Phoenix, AZ
    Jacuzzi connected to pool raised above pool (water flows into pool like a water fall)
    Heater - gas, In floor cleaning system - pop-up heads, Use liquid chlorine
    2 hp pentair pump - installed 2014 -- Cartridge filter - pentair - installed 2014
    FAS-DPD chlorine K-2006 test kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    The answer to your specific question is no, the baking soda will not build up.

    The answer to the question you did not ask, and the solution to your rising pH problem is ... stop adding baking soda!!!
    How low is your TA getting and what are you raising it back too? The higher the TA, the faster the pH will rise.

    If you let the TA get down in the 50-60ppm range, your pH rise should slow way down.

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    pabeader's Avatar
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    +1 to what jblizzle said. I would add only this: Be sure to read the notes below the table. Some times folks don't see them and they explain a few things that might be confusing.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Defgufman's Avatar
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    Every pool reacts differently, my pool keeps PH in range more consistently when TA is between 70 to 90. You just need to test out different balances till you find your pool's sweet spot.
    Inground 13,200 gal Vinyl, Pentair 3/4 hp pump, Pentair Sand Dollar filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    I am trying to use the TFPC system. So starting off, my cya is at 45 ppm and I am trying to keep the chlorine level above 5 ppm.
    During this last summer in Phoenix I have been pouring gallon of liquid chlorine 10% in my pool every day. This raises the ph from 7.5 to 7,9 or 8.o pph. Then I put in 1 cup of a muriatic acid 31% and this lowers the ph back to 7.5. The chlorine level fluctuates daily between 5 to 6.5 ppm. I have been doing this since I learned about TFPC which is the last three months.
    In the process of adding muriatic acid every day the TA seems to be dropping. I started out with a TA of 80 and over a couple of months It dropped to 60, that is when I put 6 pound of baking soda in the pool bringing the TA up to 90.
    With the chemistry guidelines for TA being at 80-100 I wondering how low can I allow the TA to drop before causing damage to my pool. And by adding these chemicals’ daily will the TA find its sweet spot and stop dropping.
    12000 gallon pebbletec pool,Built 2008, Phoenix, AZ
    Jacuzzi connected to pool raised above pool (water flows into pool like a water fall)
    Heater - gas, In floor cleaning system - pop-up heads, Use liquid chlorine
    2 hp pentair pump - installed 2014 -- Cartridge filter - pentair - installed 2014
    FAS-DPD chlorine K-2006 test kit

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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    Your pH should not be rising from 7.5 to 8.0 after only adding half gallon of 10% sodium hypochlorite
    Curtis- 20k gallon IG gunnite/plaster with hot tub/waterfall and "grotto"
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    TF-100 in da house/TFP method in effect: FC=4-6, pH=7.5, TA=80, CH=250, CYA=50, Borate=50, CSI=-0.21

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    wjr75's Avatar
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    If I didn't close my pool every year I would add boric acid (Borates) at 50ppm if I were you once the TA gets back down. I use it in my 900 gallon hot tub after I close the pool for the season and keep the hot tub open until December. I only need about 2lbs for the 900 gallons verses about 50lbs for the pool if I were to use it there.
    Inground 22k gallon gunite 15x31 main pool, 15x7 wading pool/sunning deck, hot tub/with overflow (9' octagon with limestone top) & slide NSWG, Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ale_Brewer View Post
    Your pH should not be rising from 7.5 to 8.0 after only adding half gallon of 10% sodium hypochlorite
    +1 to what Ale_Brewer has posted.

    According to pool math, 64oz of 10% liquid chlorine will not raise your pH at all. So your pH rise is coming from another source or your pH test is faulty somehow.

    How are you measuring pH and are you waiting at least 30mins for the chlorine to circulate prior to testing?


    Matt
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    12000 gallon pebbletec pool,Built 2008, Phoenix, AZ Jacuzzi connected to pool raised above pool (water flows into pool like a water fall) Heater - gas, In floor cleaning system - pop-up heads,
    As Matt mentioned, the 10% liquid chlorine is not raising your PH. Chances are that the Jacuzzi (spillover spa) that flows into the pool like a waterfall is the culprit. How often do you use the pop up heads (cleaning system)? I believe they create a lot of bubbles as well because they spin and also could be a small contributor to rising PH.

    Try shutting down the Jacuzzi after you bring your PH down to 7.5. Test PH a few days later to determine if it has stabilized. If so, then turn the Jacuzzi back on, run it for the same amount of time and determine if PH has risen.

    My pool pump was running 12 hours a day and I have 4 rotating heads that break the water surface and create a lot of aeration. Every 4 days, I added 10 oz. of MA and that reduced the PH from the 7.7-7.8 range to the 7.5-7.6 range on the Taylor K-1000 kit. One thing I did notice is that once the pump was cut down to about 6 hours, I was only adding MA every 7-8 days, extending the time.

    Chances are that is what is happening, or your test is somehow faulty and you could have bad reagents. Testing error could be a factor. Each pool is different and your TA could be lower then the recommended range. You have to find your sweet spot. If you find that your PH is still increased at low TA, then you may want to add borates because you should not allow your TA to drop below the 50-60 range.

    Please keep us posted!
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    My ph numbers may be off a little bit, but they’re not that far off. I can test my water and get a ph of 7.6, pour in 64 oz of liquid chlorine, retest in an hour and the ph is 7.9 to 8.0 something.
    I do have a Jacuzzi that pours into the pool in a water fall manner, maybe that is raising the ph too.
    I run my pool 8 hours a day and have a in floor cleaning system so the water is flowing from the Jacuzzi into the pool (waterfall) about 25 percent of the time, Note sure how many popup cleaning stations I have but I think it is four.
    In my efforts to maintain the ph at 7.5 and keep the chlorine above 5 (cya is 45), for a 48 hour period or two days I use 1 gallon of liquid chlorine and 2 cups of acid (31%) And that is a fact
    My popup cleaning system is integrated into the pool in such a manner that if I am running water into the pool it has to go through the Jacuzzi and I have to use the in floor cleaning system when circulating water though the pool. I do not have a pool return just for the main pool, it has to go through the Jacuzzi.
    My test kit is (fas-dpd chlorine) K-2006 purchased three months ago.
    12000 gallon pebbletec pool,Built 2008, Phoenix, AZ
    Jacuzzi connected to pool raised above pool (water flows into pool like a water fall)
    Heater - gas, In floor cleaning system - pop-up heads, Use liquid chlorine
    2 hp pentair pump - installed 2014 -- Cartridge filter - pentair - installed 2014
    FAS-DPD chlorine K-2006 test kit

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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    My ph numbers may be off a little bit, but they’re not that far off. I can test my water and get a ph of 7.6, pour in 64 oz of liquid chlorine, retest in an hour and the ph is 7.9 to 8.0 something.
    It is recommended that you always test your PH each day a the same time. If you test prior to the addition and then after, you will get a higher reading. The PH does increase, but then comes down as the chlorine burns off. So, I believe this is the issue. It is how you are testing. Below is a thread of what I asked that may give you a little more information. If you search on our forum "How much does chlorine raise PH", you will find a wealth of information and it all kind of leads to what is happening. Try testing before you add the chlorine and stay with that route and not before and after. See what happens. I know when I test PH, then add acid first, followed by chlorine 30 minutes later, and then test an hour later, the PH always seem not to come down. The next morning, it always registers where it should be. Hopefully this helps.


    How much does liquid chlorine raise PH for how long?
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
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    wjr75's Avatar
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    I forgot to mention in my last post that borates will slow your ph rise. Once the ph does go up you will still need the same amount of acid to bring the ph down. That's why I use it in my hot tub since I have the jets and blower which will raise the ph due aeration.
    Inground 22k gallon gunite 15x31 main pool, 15x7 wading pool/sunning deck, hot tub/with overflow (9' octagon with limestone top) & slide NSWG, Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen
    Filter dual cartridge Sta-rite 450sq/ft, TF-100 Test Kit
    Heater Raypak 2100 400k btu cupro-nickel exchanger
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    If you are testing the pH shortly after adding chlorine, it WILL show the pH rise, but adding 8 cups of 10% chlorinating liquid to 12,000 gallons should raise the pH from 7.5 to 7.7, but then as noted above when the chlorine is used/consumed it should drop back down again. If it doesn't, then the source of pH rise is elsewhere, likely carbon dioxide outgassing from too high a TA and having aeration sources. The fact that your TA drops confirms that the pH rise is mostly from carbon dioxide outgassing. If the rise were actually from the excess lye in bleach, the TA would not be dropping.

    The amount of chlorine you are adding each day is on the high side at 4.2 ppm FC. Yet you say the FC fluctuates from 5 to 6.5 (did you mean from before vs. after adding chlorine?) so something does not make sense.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    We still don't know if you are testing pH at the same time as FC test (before adding anything). There's really no need to test after you add chemical until the next day, which eliminates the possibility of false test results.


    Curtis- 20k gallon IG gunnite/plaster with hot tub/waterfall and "grotto"
    All Jandy equipment: 60sqft DE filter - 399k btu natural gas heater - Stealth pumps - iAquaLink RS8.
    Polaris 9400 on patrol.
    TF-100 in da house/TFP method in effect: FC=4-6, pH=7.5, TA=80, CH=250, CYA=50, Borate=50, CSI=-0.21

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    Re: Using baking soda to raise TA

    Thank you everyone for your advice during this discussion.
    I have decided to take the advice from several members of this site and add borates to my pool. I’ll let you know in a couple of weeks how things are going.
    Thanks again,
    Jal
    12000 gallon pebbletec pool,Built 2008, Phoenix, AZ
    Jacuzzi connected to pool raised above pool (water flows into pool like a water fall)
    Heater - gas, In floor cleaning system - pop-up heads, Use liquid chlorine
    2 hp pentair pump - installed 2014 -- Cartridge filter - pentair - installed 2014
    FAS-DPD chlorine K-2006 test kit

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