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Thread: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    I was using pool math saturday then just looked and it seems the TA range
    was changed from 70-90+ to 50-90+

    why the change?
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Because for some pool owners, especially those of us with plaster pools, lots of aeration and SWG's, trying to maintain the old range caused too much pH rise. My pool is quite happy when the TA is down at 50ppm (I have high CH and 50ppm borates). When the TA goes above 70ppm, I start getting rapid pH rises and my acid demand goes up from adding 12oz/week of MA to more like 6oz/day of MA.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Are you referring to where the "GOAL" is listed on the TA row, just above the NOW & TARGET values on the Poolmath calculator ? I believe some changes were made recently to some characteristics that ensured all of those features (Goals) matched the Pool School - Recommended Levels .

    - - - Updated - - -

    And what Matt said.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    If you look back over this last swim season, there were probably dozens of posts (or even more) of people complaining that they were on the pH/TA roller coaster - having to add lots of MA to get their pH down but then consuming all their TA and having to add baking soda to raise it. Most folks don't have a deep enough chemistry understanding to know why it does that or to feel comfortable lowering their TA below the recommended range and so every response was - "lower your TA to 60ppm or 50ppm and see if that helps." So then the natural question was - "why are the ranges set so high if it's going to impact me like that? Why don't you tell people 50ppm is ok? I felt like I couldn't go that low or else I would damage my pool! I wasted all this money and time on MA and baking soda!!" (OK, that last one is me being a bit dramatic, but you get the point)

    So changes were made to make it easier for people to adjust their TA without thinking they were violating the TFP Guidelines...
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Until I allowed my pool to drift into the 50-60 TA range I was constantly fighting the pH monster. Now, it is rock solid and the only chemical I've added in months is about 4# of baking soda when the TA went below 50.

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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Glad to hear about the change. I always felt a little 'dirty' when I would suggest to members that TA can be lower than the 'recommended' range.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Very interesting...I remember lots of stories of those that had constant acid additions to maintain chemistry.

    My fill water TA is 50.
    PH is 7.8

    I have a new vinyl liner going in wednesday....I bought 3 boxes of baking soda in anticipation to get the TA to 80.

    Should I just keep it at 50?
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    I would say don't shoot too high. Start on the low-end of the scale, start with your fill TA of 50. See how your pH reacts for a few days then go from there. If pH keeps dropping, then raise TA. Do whatever makes the pH happy.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    With a pH of 7.8 I would MA down to 7.4 and see if it stays.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Do whatever makes the pH happy.


    Vinyl pools without a lot of sources of aeration tend to have falling pH. I would expect yours to be that way too. I would suggest just starting at the low end of the vinyl TA recommended level and see how your pH adjustments go.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    With a pH of 7.8 I would MA down to 7.4 and see if it stays.
    Will do.

    thankfully 3 boxes of baking soda I got to raise the TA are less than 3 bucks haha
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    As noticed, PoolMath was updated Sunday morning to address a few items. Both the TA and CH goals were updated to match the Recommended Levels chart on TFP. This updated also fixed the "issue" of having only 2 of the 3 numbers being shown for Mustard Algae levels when CYA levels are very high.

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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    I keep my TA at 50, and even with a SWG, my pH stays very steady at around 7.4. Ive only had to add about 8 ozs of MA once in the last 2 years.
    I would say give it a shot, and see how steady the pH is.

    Much easier to raise the TA, than to lower it.

    Quote Originally Posted by borjis View Post
    Very interesting...I remember lots of stories of those that had constant acid additions to maintain chemistry.

    My fill water TA is 50.
    PH is 7.8

    I have a new vinyl liner going in wednesday....I bought 3 boxes of baking soda in anticipation to get the TA to 80.

    Should I just keep it at 50?
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: Did pool math get an update? TA is different

    Thanks Dave. I will try it at 50 and keep an eye on things.

    One weird thing I had at the house I just sold with in-ground plaster...last fall the TA was 80, by spring it was up to 160 ish
    but I didn't add any baking soda during the winter...that was strange.

    fortunately I had to partial drain/refill a few times to get the 300+ cya down and that got the TA back in line as a bonus.

    Still was puzzled why the TA at the old place shot up.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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