Motor wont start..

[gamerasian]

This morning when I tried to start the motor and plugged it in I saw some sparks near where the wire joins the motor. I don't understand the reason for it and it has stopped working since then

Does that mean the motor is busted or just the wiring? I am crossing my fingers .
Thanks

 

[pabeader]

Could just be a loose wire in the connector. Make sure there is no power going to it and then take a look. Take some pics and post them here. The other possibility is the starting cap has gone bad. Did you hear any kind of hum?

 

[Texas Splash]

I agree with Bob. As noted, first check to see if the breaker was tripped as a safety measure. But even if the breaker is tripped, don't reset it or apply power to the pump until you can safely inspect the wiring to see why it may have sparked in the first place. Are the wires frayed, did they touch each other or arc against something? Maybe something that you can repair other than just assuming the motor is bad. But again, any inspection or repair would need to be done when you are positive the power source is off. Only after you've completed your work/inspection could you re-apply power to see if the situation is resolved. Safety first!

 

[gamerasian]

I don't hear any humming and the breaker didn't trip. I will take out the motor cap and click some pics and send. thanks

 

[pabeader]

One other thing that has been scratching at the back of my brain: "Why were you plugging it in?" Or maybe a better question would be, "What were you plugging in?" The pool pumps that I've dealt with are all 220V and usually wired into timers or switches. I've not seen a 220V motor with a cord. Not that it is wrong, just not some I've seen yet.

 

[gamerasian]

One other thing that has been scratching at the back of my brain: "Why were you plugging it in?" Or maybe a better question would be, "What were you plugging in?" The pool pumps that I've dealt with are all 220V and usually wired into timers or switches. I've not seen a 220V motor with a cord. Not that it is wrong, just not some I've seen yet.

So this pool came with the house and it was in a very bad condition. We fixed up everything. Even the motor was gone. So we replaced it with another motor which was working just fine only thing is we haven't connected it to the whole pool circuit. We were thinking that its jst one month and we have to close it for winter and we have spent a lot in fixing the pool itself so we would connect the motor to the pool circuit (timer breaker etc) when the next season starts. So we were just hooking it up to the two switches that are outside right above the point and it is connected to the breaker but not the timer. So every time I have to plug it in and out when I am trying to turn it on and off.. do you think that could be the reason?

- - - Updated - - -

So here are the pics attached. It looks like the white wire is burnt. Is this thing fixable or do you think motor is gone too.

 

[Agent99]

I'd try to clean that up best I could (get all the charred material out of there) and inspect things more closely to see what is left.

I don't think manually plugging it in/out is a bad thing. But all that moving around of the cable over time could have loosened things and caused an arc there on the neutral and fried it.

Clean up, access, try running the pump again after careful assessment.

 

[gamerasian]

I'd try to clean that up best I could (get all the charred material out of there) and inspect things more closely to see what is left.

I don't think manually plugging it in/out is a bad thing. But all that moving around of the cable over time could have loosened things and caused an arc there on the neutral and fried it.

Clean up, access, try running the pump again after careful assessment.

I see the wire burnt up. I can fix that but wht about the station it was hooked up on. Do u think I will get these parts at home depot? thanks

 

[Agent99]

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'station' it was hooked up to. Is there something burned or charred in there? Is it a timer or something? Pics of that?

BTW, is there only 1 wire that is charred? It looks like only 1 but not sure about the green wire there connected to the motor body.

 

[gamerasian]

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'station' it was hooked up to. Is there something burned or charred in there? Is it a timer or something? Pics of that?

BTW, is there only 1 wire that is charred? It looks like only 1 but not sure about the green wire there connected to the motor body.

Sorry about not using the proper names of the parts..By googling more I found the name of the part I was talking earlier. Its the A O smith terminal board. that is burned out where the white wire is connected. The white wire is all burnt and it is slightly stuck to the green wire, aft melting I guess.. SO I am thinking to replace this terminal board.

 

[Agent99]

Gotcha. Yeah, I don't know. Clean things up good and see what you've got left and if it is salvageable or not. I dunno if you can buy that as a separate item but it might not be a bad idea to get one if you can.

With the neutral melting into the green, obviously make sure to free them to ensure that white is not electrically connected to the green. I'd use a meter to check to make sure that your black, white and green are all isolated from each other and still good from end to end (likely the cord/cable is just fine after cutting out the charred sections but do your due diligence).

 

[pabeader]

So, I have a few things to mention. Yes, you are correct, that is the terminal board. It will need replacing. You might actually find it at a local motor repair place or even a pool $tore. The issue is going to be, that looks like it is one of the leads from the motor winding itself. You may not have enough lead there to work with. You are going to have to strip and attach a new end on that white wire. Then the question is going to be, "what caused it in the first place?"
It could be a bad winding, a loose connection or unknown. I am inclined to think it is from a loose connection. Those push on connectors are known to get loose and if the connector was moving while to motor was trying to start, an arc would develop. Another possibility would be that over time the connection was starting to build up a layer of corrosion. This would cause the connector and surrounding area to heat up and melt. It can even melt the plastic coating on the wire. It almost looks like this might be what was happening.

 

[gamerasian]

Thank you for all the help. I went to a nearest pool store to get the terminal board. There was a young kid behind the counter and he just suggested me tht I really don't need to change the terminal as the points to which the wires are hooked up are not burnt. I have a picture of it attached. He did fix up my burnt wire and put new leads to it for $5. He told me that the problem is with the kind of connection I have. I have picture of the wire also attached. DO you experts think that this wire is not the right type? I will b getting a permanent solution for the pool circuit but just out of curiosity and knowledge I would like to know if this wire is incorrect type.

Thanks again for all the help and guidance.

 

[Agent99]

I'm sure it'll work fine but personally I'm not a fan of those crimp on connectors but that is just me. I like wrapping the wire around the screw and tightening it down. It is a bit more of a pain to do but then again I'm a bit more of a pain, too.

Hopefully the issue you had was a loose wire (I think it was) and when you button it all back up, things will get back to normal for you.

To answer your question about the power cord, the gauge of the wire is most important. What is the size of the breaker on this circuit? If 20 A, your power cord needs to be at least #12 wire. If 15 A, it needs to be at least #14 wire.

 

[gamerasian]

Thank you so much Chris. Just one more thing... by looking at the wire how do we find what # it is? I know if I buy new one I would know. Can one just by looking at the wire know what # it is? I have a 20A circuit breaker.
Thanks a bunch again..

 

[gamerasian]

BTW Chris I read ur main drain story.. I think I'm also somewhere close.. Can't say for sure.. But I always have debris near my main drain.. I always vacuum it out.. At least u had a lot of experience as a pool owner and I have none..so it m just going to ignore that fact of no main drain ..this pool has new flooring new liner everything new too.. The pool guys as in ur case were Spanish speaking which mine is not even weak, it's bad! LOL.. Anyways great reading and gaining knowledge and possibility of a fake main drain...

 

[pabeader]

The numbers should be written on the outer jacket of the wiring. The are often all kinds of number printed on the things so just post whatever is there and we should be able to help figure it out.

 

[Agent99]

Yes, as Bob said, check the cable carefully. Sometimes it is in white and other times it is just 'stamped' into the jacket and can be hard to read. It might say something like 14 AWG or 12 AWG (American Wire Gauge).

As to my FMD (fake main drain), I cannot say for sure if it was deceptively passed on or not but I think as the years went by and the home changed ownership, things might've been forgotten or been forgotten to be passed on or...disclosed. Still a strange thing but at least know I know I do not have a MD.

 

[gamerasian]

I dont see any number on the wire.. and again pls ignore my lack of knowledge of technical terms. when u say jacket i am presuming its the black cover tht keeps the three wires together. I looked and i dnt see any numbers on it unless jacket is something else

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, as Bob said, check the cable carefully. Sometimes it is in white and other times it is just 'stamped' into the jacket and can be hard to read. It might say something like 14 AWG or 12 AWG (American Wire Gauge).

As to my FMD (fake main drain), I cannot say for sure if it was deceptively passed on or not but I think as the years went by and the home changed ownership, things might've been forgotten or been forgotten to be passed on or...disclosed. Still a strange thing but at least know I know I do not have a MD.

There are way too many similarities in our story with mine.. house built in 70s pool built in 78 ..we are the third owner but we have no records what so ever of the pool.. atleast you are aware of the fact..for us its still a mystery and will remain so till we decided to put new liner (which would be hopefully 10 yrs).. thank you for your help and have a great day.

 

[Agent99]

Well, eyeballing it from here, the cable does look like #12 wire. I guess the only thing you can do is to compare it to some wire whose gauge you know for sure.