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Thread: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

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    Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Hello all, Thanks for the great info in the forums/stickys.

    About to have a pool built, trying to decide on a cleaning system. Currently planning on applying the Hayward Navigator, but when looking at design wondering how effective it'd be. Plus my wife really doesn't want to see a cleaner in the pool full-time. I grew up brushing my pool, but would prefer an easier solution. So, I guess an in-floor like the PC2000 is an option? Seems like people love them the first couple years, but within 10 years they need serious maintenance.

    Specs: 16x32 pool, 6' of the length is a sun shelf. I also have 2 channels in the back wall that might be a challenge for the Navigator. Any thoughts?

    Attachment 42908

    Pool approx 15k gallons, SWG, 2HP 2speed pump with Booster for water features.

    Thanks for your input

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    bdrums's Avatar
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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    I have not read anything about Paramount In Floor systems needing serious maintenance at about 10 years.

    My philosophy was - I get one chance to choose the In Floor - at the build. If I have to I can always revert to something else but I can't add the In Floor later. Since I'm all for low maintenance it was a no brainer for me.

    Good luck!
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    IG Gunite w/ spa, PebbleSheen Blue Surf, 18K gallons 500sqft
    Jandy: 60 DE filter, 2.0 VS (main pump), 2.0 Flo Pro (features)
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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    In addition to the Paramount PCC2000, have a look at the A&A Manufacturing infloor system. And check the warranties on both.

    I have a 16 year old A&A system. While I've had to replace a few parts, they were covered under the lifetime warranty (to the original owner). The only cost involved to me is returning the old parts back to them. A&A also consults with the builder in the design and placement of the infloor system. And its great that they stand behind there product warranty too.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    In addition to the Paramount PCC2000, have a look at the A&A Manufacturing infloor system. And check the warranties on both.

    I have a 16 year old A&A system. While I've had to replace a few parts, they were covered under the lifetime warranty (to the original owner). The only cost involved to me is returning the old parts back to them. A&A also consults with the builder in the design and placement of the infloor system. And its great that they stand behind there product warranty too.
    I too considered the paramount and A&A. I have decided to go with a & a. I am doing an owner build with the assistance of a general contractor who have build over 100 pools. He has installed both systems. A & A mandates you submit plans for design and from what he says are the easiest for warranty claims. Seems like many folks back east are not in favor of in ground systems. I have talked to many people that have in ground systems and they love them.


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    After looking at your rendering again, you may wish to consider having your large sun shelf on the left as your second step. The first step will only be 4-6 inches deep with water. Second step will probably be 12-16 inches deep. For some, this is a much more comfortable depth to hang out on to sun yourself - and little kids seem to like it too. The depth of the second step is usually as deep as a sitting ledge in deep end.

    Just a thought.... BTW - nice looking pool
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    What if the builder hasn't installed many in floor systems? Experienced builder, but I read that experience is pretty critical.

    The shelf is 12", with starlight fiberoptic lighting. There'll be a bubbler, but concerned about overall circulation. I doubt a basic cleaner would be able to effectively maintain that 19x6' area.

    16k gal, IG, marcite, 3HP VSP Ecostar, 2HP Booster 2speed, 200 sqft cartridge, SWG, Caretaker IFC, Omnilogic, Solar, Taylor K2006, Born 3/16

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Based on your design, I think an in-floor system is you best bet considering that large sun shelf. No auto cleaner or robot is going to be able to navigate those steps. One thing about cleaning though - you still need a brush and a vacuum head. There are going to be times, perhaps before a party or family, when you'll want to do a quick clean and doing by hand is the quicker option. I'd include a dedicated vacuum port somewhere for that purpose.

    Also, a 2-speed plus booster makes no sense to me. Buy a variable speed pump, like 3HP Pentair IntelliFlo or Hayward equivalent, and you'll have all the pump power you need to run everything.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    When you say the shelf is 12", do you mean 12" from the deck or 12" deep with water? If it's the first step, I'd bet it's 12 " from deck height - which will only be covered with about 6" or less of water. If the shelf is the first step and has 12" of water, that would make that first step into the pool about 18" - and probably not to code.

    The couple of PCC2000 systems I've seen do use a booster pump. The A&A system I have (and others I've seen) do not.

    As Matt said, look into a VS pump. It will save on your electric usage. I run my cleaner 3-4 hours a day with pump @ 2900 rpm. The rest of my run time is at 1000 rpm with much reduced power consumption. With the correct automation, you could run the in-floor at specific times and also have the option to easily switch over to your water features, vary your rpms as needed, etc.

    +1 on his recommendation of a dedicated vac port - with a regulating valve at the equipment pad. A minimal cost - if any - that will benefit you later on. It can be used for manual vacuuming as well as for a suction side automated cleaner if needed. Better to include now than to wish you installed it later.

    If you do go with the in-floor cleaning system, also consider adding dedicated returns. My builder tried talking me out of them, as the in-floor acts as the returns. Glad I insisted on separate returns, nice not to have the in-floor heads popping up and down when using the pool. Saves many a stubbed toe or the kids playing with the heads. My 3-way Jandy valve allows for choosing in-floor or regular returns.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    When you say the shelf is 12", do you mean 12" from the deck or 12" deep with water? If it's the first step, I'd bet it's 12 " from deck height - which will only be covered with about 6" or less of water. If the shelf is the first step and has 12" of water, that would make that first step into the pool about 18" - and probably not to code.

    The couple of PCC2000 systems I've seen do use a booster pump. The A&A system I have (and others I've seen) do not.

    As Matt said, look into a VS pump. It will save on your electric usage. I run my cleaner 3-4 hours a day with pump @ 2900 rpm. The rest of my run time is at 1000 rpm with much reduced power consumption. With the correct automation, you could run the in-floor at specific times and also have the option to easily switch over to your water features, vary your rpms as needed, etc.

    +1 on his recommendation of a dedicated vac port - with a regulating valve at the equipment pad. A minimal cost - if any - that will benefit you later on. It can be used for manual vacuuming as well as for a suction side automated cleaner if needed. Better to include now than to wish you installed it later.

    If you do go with the in-floor cleaning system, also consider adding dedicated returns. My builder tried talking me out of them, as the in-floor acts as the returns. Glad I insisted on separate returns, nice not to have the in-floor heads popping up and down when using the pool. Saves many a stubbed toe or the kids playing with the heads. My 3-way Jandy valve allows for choosing in-floor or regular returns.
    Are the separate returns so you can run the pump without the In floor system? I am about to break ground and I want to make sure I get this right....


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Quote Originally Posted by azjoshers79 View Post
    Are the separate returns so you can run the pump without the In floor system? I am about to break ground and I want to make sure I get this right....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I believe I've always seen it suggested here that you have a separate return loop plumbed in addition to the in-floor system. If the distribution valve should fail (and they can), you won't be able to properly circulate water in the pool.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Matt is correct - it's in addition to the in-floor. more flexibility to push the water where you want (and a just-in-case for any distribution valve failure). My return line from the filter goes into a 3-way Jandy valve - one side is the inlet for the filter, one is to the in-floor distribution setup and the last is to the return lines. I have additional Jandy valves for the water feature and on the suction side for the skimmer and floor drain too. For a 20k gallon pool like yours, probably 3-4 returns off the main (non in-floor) return should work. Mine have adjustable eyeball sockets at the pool, so I can direct the flow (presently in a counter clock wise direction).

    In addition to the dedicated returns, I'd also recommend a dedicated suction line for manual vacuuming (and/or a suction side cleaner if needed in the future). PVC pipe is cheap and a couple extra Jandy valves aren't going to break the bank on a 20k gallon build.

    BTW - good call on the LeafVac - I love mine!
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Great information! I will be talking with the contractor that is helping me. I will discuss overall plumbing.


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Give thought to how you may want the plumbing laid out - not for ease of them banging it out. You're the one who has to live with it. Make it easiest for you.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Pre-Build, deciding on cleaning system (photo of pool)

    Yeah I'm going to rely on my buddy who is managing the subs.
    He will build it however I want. He said it will not cost more to plumb separate returns and a vac. Line


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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