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Thread: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

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    New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Hi all,

    I recently got my new pool up and running. It has a Nature2 1400 installed in it, as I asked my PB for a SWG and that's what he installed. I just learned on these forums that the Nature2 isn't generally recommended and understand the reasons why (minerals possibly causing staining). The PB didn't start the Nature2 yet, has they're recommending we wait for the spring (since we'll be closing the pool soon).

    As crazy as it seems (with it all being brand new), I'm considering getting rid of the Nature2 and installing something that will not have the mineral cartridge, and (more importantly) that will have a better capacity for the size of my pool (so that I don't have to worry about manually adding Cl). I'd like it to be seamlessly integrated with the automation I already have installed.

    Does anyone have any recommendations?
    In-ground 47'x25' free-form gunite pool w/ spa w/ waterfall. 35,380 gallons. 3' to 8' deep. 96 sq ft 6" deep sun shelf. SunStone Select Quartz Finish (Graphite). 2 Hayward skimmers. Jandy DEV60 DE Filter + Pro Series Plus 2HP Pump. Polaris PB4-60 Pressure Cleaner Booster Pump. Raypack P-R406A Heater. EasyTouch 8. IntelliChem w/ Acid Tank. IntelliChlor IC60. Techo-Bloc bullnose coping + Blu 60 mm paver patio. Merlin SmartMesh cover. TF-100.

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Sounds to me like you have it pretty much figured out. Rip it out and put in a large dedicated SWG.
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Sorry - I should of been more specific. I mean, does anyone have a recommendation of a particular SWG that would be a good fit for my pool?
    In-ground 47'x25' free-form gunite pool w/ spa w/ waterfall. 35,380 gallons. 3' to 8' deep. 96 sq ft 6" deep sun shelf. SunStone Select Quartz Finish (Graphite). 2 Hayward skimmers. Jandy DEV60 DE Filter + Pro Series Plus 2HP Pump. Polaris PB4-60 Pressure Cleaner Booster Pump. Raypack P-R406A Heater. EasyTouch 8. IntelliChem w/ Acid Tank. IntelliChlor IC60. Techo-Bloc bullnose coping + Blu 60 mm paver patio. Merlin SmartMesh cover. TF-100.

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    One rated for twice your pool gallons.

    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
    Pool Rover Jr., Pool Blaster Max, Diver Dave TF100 Test Kit/Speed Stir
    Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker, Liqour Chiller, & Drink Mixer & Party Tub----Collect 'um all!

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    The Pentair IntelliChlor IC60 is for up to 60K gallons. That would be a good one.

    Hayward has the AquaRite AQR15 that goes up to 40K. That's a little less output than the Pentair.
    AutoPilot also has some SWG (Pool Pilot) that are for larger volumes, from 35K to 67K.

    I don't have direct experience with these but those are models I have heard used here on TFP.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    I just wanted to let you know I feel your pain, I bought a lightly used car 3 years ago (Dodge Challenger SRT-8) that came equipped from the factory with the optional high performance summer only tires that cost over $400 each. They were great in dry warm weather, but on wet pavement they would slip and slide all over the place. The problem is I live in Louisiana and we have these things called thermal thunderstorms in the summer so on any summer afternoon one can get caught in a random thunderstorm with little warning. Sure it hurt to replace them when the car still had under 8,000 miles on the odometer, but it would have hurt even worse to put it in the ditch while inching along at 45 mph in a 65 zone just because the pavement was wet.

    Ike

    p.s. I am not exaggerating here you could not drive the car with the cruise control on if the pavement was wet as every time the rear wheels would hit an expansion joint they would start to spin and the back end would break free.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    The Pentair IntelliChlor IC60 is for up to 60K gallons. That would be a good one.

    Hayward has the AquaRite AQR15 that goes up to 40K. That's a little less output than the Pentair.
    AutoPilot also has some SWG (Pool Pilot) that are for larger volumes, from 35K to 67K.

    I don't have direct experience with these but those are models I have heard used here on TFP.

    Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into them. I was thinking to do the change myself, as I'm pretty handy and my brother is an electrician. However, I'm thinking I might need to have my PB install whichever I pick, to avoid them trying to tell me I voided my warranty by doing work on the system. Frustrating, but it could be worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    I just wanted to let you know I feel your pain, I bought a lightly used car 3 years ago (Dodge Challenger SRT-8) that came equipped from the factory with the optional high performance summer only tires that cost over $400 each. They were great in dry warm weather, but on wet pavement they would slip and slide all over the place. The problem is I live in Louisiana and we have these things called thermal thunderstorms in the summer so on any summer afternoon one can get caught in a random thunderstorm with little warning. Sure it hurt to replace them when the car still had under 8,000 miles on the odometer, but it would have hurt even worse to put it in the ditch while inching along at 45 mph in a 65 zone just because the pavement was wet.

    Ike

    p.s. I am not exaggerating here you could not drive the car with the cruise control on if the pavement was wet as every time the rear wheels would hit an expansion joint they would start to spin and the back end would break free.

    Thanks for sharing that story. I totally get what you're saying, as far as the big picture goes. I think I'll just have to bite the bullet and make the change. Good luck with those storms!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
    One rated for twice your pool gallons.

    Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

    Ok, thanks for the info.
    In-ground 47'x25' free-form gunite pool w/ spa w/ waterfall. 35,380 gallons. 3' to 8' deep. 96 sq ft 6" deep sun shelf. SunStone Select Quartz Finish (Graphite). 2 Hayward skimmers. Jandy DEV60 DE Filter + Pro Series Plus 2HP Pump. Polaris PB4-60 Pressure Cleaner Booster Pump. Raypack P-R406A Heater. EasyTouch 8. IntelliChem w/ Acid Tank. IntelliChlor IC60. Techo-Bloc bullnose coping + Blu 60 mm paver patio. Merlin SmartMesh cover. TF-100.

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    New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Hey Joe,

    Just wanted to say don't get too frustrated over the SWG thing. There are two factors here at play that are out of your control. For one, you have a large sized pool (35k gallons). And secondly, the SWG manufacturers are just following pool industry guidelines when it comes to chlorination, ie, 1-3ppm FC.

    So, for better or for worse, when you try to match TFP guidelines with a large, saltwater pool, it becomes very difficult to find residential SWGs that can generate the chlorine levels that TFP recommends. So even a Hayward T-15 or Pentair IC-60 (top of the line units) will probably produce just enough chlorine to meet your needs. It's not surprising the PB picked the unit that he did.

    At the end of the day, all SWG pool owners have to use a little manual chlorination here and there to bump up FC. SWGs don't mean never having to use bleach, they just make it a lot less necessary. So spend some time looking into replacement units and doing some more research. You have all winter to figure it out.

    As for warranties, DIY, etc., I think you should go DIY and leave the PB out of it. It will be cheaper and, as warranties go, any of the major manufacturers can and will find any excuse to invalidate a warranty claim (chemical levels, DIY install, incompatible with other equipment, etc, etc).

    Cheers,
    Matt


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Again I would also suggest waiting until spring and seeing how well your current unit keeps up with the chlorine demand for YOUR pool, as otherwise we are talking about generalities with a lot of variables like your exact climate, how shaded the pool is, organic loading, etc.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Hi all,

    I spoke with the PB's service department and they advised that if I wanted to change the Nature2 Fusion Soft out for a Pentair IntelliChlor IC60 I'd also have to change my power center (if I want to have the generator be automated), as he's saying that my Jandy AquaLink isn't compatible with the Pentair salt generator. Does anyone know if that's true?
    In-ground 47'x25' free-form gunite pool w/ spa w/ waterfall. 35,380 gallons. 3' to 8' deep. 96 sq ft 6" deep sun shelf. SunStone Select Quartz Finish (Graphite). 2 Hayward skimmers. Jandy DEV60 DE Filter + Pro Series Plus 2HP Pump. Polaris PB4-60 Pressure Cleaner Booster Pump. Raypack P-R406A Heater. EasyTouch 8. IntelliChem w/ Acid Tank. IntelliChlor IC60. Techo-Bloc bullnose coping + Blu 60 mm paver patio. Merlin SmartMesh cover. TF-100.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    I think there is an interface box you can get for the Aqualink
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    I know that they have IntelliComm to control Pentair VS pumps with Jandy automation but I don't know of any interfaces to make the Pentair SWG to integrate with Aqualink.

    It's always easiest to have the same brand when using automation.

    Will the PB give you some credit if he switches it out to Pentair?
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    I know that they have IntelliComm to control Pentair VS pumps with Jandy automation but I don't know of any interfaces to make the Pentair SWG to integrate with Aqualink.

    It's always easiest to have the same brand when using automation.

    Will the PB give you some credit if he switches it out to Pentair?
    Thanks for the info. I asked and the PB won't give a credit. I'm getting fed up with the PB, so I contacted a different company and got a quote on getting Pentair automation and he estimated that it would be around $9,000 - just for switching the automation box...seems like a ripoff, especially considering all the electric is already there and really one box just has to be changed out for the other. My brother is an electrical apprentice, so I might consider asking him to help me out...but he's never worked on these systems before.

    That same company that quoted me the $9,000 to switch to the Pentair automation quoted me $2,600 to switch out my Nature2 for a Pentair IC-60 and $3,200 to install an IntelliChem with IntelliPH. I could be wrong, but his quotes seem very expensive. I'm hoping to find another company but I'm having trouble finding a company in central NJ with a good reputation that would do this job. I really don't mind DIY projects, but I'm swamped at work and have a 6 month old, so I don't have too much free time right now.

    Of course, when I called the PB and told them I wanted to switch to a different SWG, they said that I really shouldn't (since it's all brand new for me) and that the Nature2 is a great system that they don't really have complaints from...they said that there's so little metal added to the water that it never causes issues. I told them what I was finding out from others and they said that it must be exaggerations. I know they must be wrong, as I saw a lot of details online about it, so it was frustrating to hear them saying this.
    In-ground 47'x25' free-form gunite pool w/ spa w/ waterfall. 35,380 gallons. 3' to 8' deep. 96 sq ft 6" deep sun shelf. SunStone Select Quartz Finish (Graphite). 2 Hayward skimmers. Jandy DEV60 DE Filter + Pro Series Plus 2HP Pump. Polaris PB4-60 Pressure Cleaner Booster Pump. Raypack P-R406A Heater. EasyTouch 8. IntelliChem w/ Acid Tank. IntelliChlor IC60. Techo-Bloc bullnose coping + Blu 60 mm paver patio. Merlin SmartMesh cover. TF-100.

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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Those prices seem VERY inflated. A Pentair EasyTouch-8 (8 relays) automation panel with an IC-60 built in runs about $1,800 on Sunplay.com. Add on about a days worth of labor from a qualified electrician and you're definitely not coming anywhere near $9k.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Before you replace your system you might want to try removing the metal from the mineral cartridge, How to Remove Metal Balls from Nature 2 Fusion.

    With the metals out of the system you can use it just like any other SWG.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    Before you replace your system you might want to try removing the metal from the mineral cartridge, How to Remove Metal Balls from Nature 2 Fusion.

    With the metals out of the system you can use it just like any other SWG.

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am considering that too especially if I can't get a better price on the equipment installation. I was just thinking that the IC-60 would be a better match for the size of the pool (based on the TFP recommended setup). Plus, I'd like to add automation for the acid, further leaning me towards the Pentair equipment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Those prices seem VERY inflated. A Pentair EasyTouch-8 (8 relays) automation panel with an IC-60 built in runs about $1,800 on Sunplay.com. Add on about a days worth of labor from a qualified electrician and you're definitely not coming anywhere near $9k.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
    Thanks for that info. Wow, what a difference in price. I'm going to continue to try to find someone in my area that knows what they're doing with these components, but also is reasonable price-wise.
    In-ground 47'x25' free-form gunite pool w/ spa w/ waterfall. 35,380 gallons. 3' to 8' deep. 96 sq ft 6" deep sun shelf. SunStone Select Quartz Finish (Graphite). 2 Hayward skimmers. Jandy DEV60 DE Filter + Pro Series Plus 2HP Pump. Polaris PB4-60 Pressure Cleaner Booster Pump. Raypack P-R406A Heater. EasyTouch 8. IntelliChem w/ Acid Tank. IntelliChlor IC60. Techo-Bloc bullnose coping + Blu 60 mm paver patio. Merlin SmartMesh cover. TF-100.

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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Sorry don't have time to read all of the above but the cartridge that comes with this system is a start up and will not last long anyway. It should have come with a cap also. Just don't replace it and you should be fine.

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    Re: New Pool - Replace Nature2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ConradM View Post
    Sorry don't have time to read all of the above but the cartridge that comes with this system is a start up and will not last long anyway. It should have come with a cap also. Just don't replace it and you should be fine.
    I strongly recommend that you remove the cartridge from the Nature 2. The metal balls will deteriorate and metals will be added to your water which will cause staining. Check out the photos of my cartridge and you can see how the metals are added to the pool. It is an easy fix and took me (middle aged woman with weak hands) just a few minutes:
    How to Remove Metal Balls from Nature 2 Fusion
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
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