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Thread: Order of operations?

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    tdp's Avatar
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    Question Order of operations?

    My (new in June 2015) pool has been crystal clear all summer, but is now cloudy. I have ordered the TF-100 kit, but it's not here yet so I had my water tested at the pool store. Previous to finding this site, I would have my water tested there and add what they told me to. So far, have only had to add CYA once and muriatic acid several times.

    TC 2
    CC 2
    CYA 60
    TA 70
    pH 7.8

    I have a SWG so know that the CYA is a bit low here. Seems I also need to raise the TA. I want to shock the pool (which I've never done before).
    In what order should I do these things? Should I shut off the SWG before shock?

    Thanks.

    PS>I've never backwashed the filter yet; it's 2 lbs. above its "new" pressure. Should I do that? If so, where in the order of the other things that need doing?
    ~17,500 gal. IG Fiberglass, Viking "Cambridge"; installed 6/2015
    SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-9
    Hayward Hi-Rate Sand Filter
    Hayward Max-Flo XL pump
    TF-100 Test Kit/SpeedStir

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Order of operations?

    You leave the TA alone. 70 is fine for a salt water pool.

    You adjust pH to 7.2 first. Shut off the SWG. Raise FC to shock level for your CYA, which is 24. Yes, 24. And for the next few days, you test and add more bleach to keep it at 24 until you've killed everything. You'll also be brushing every inch of the pool and scrubbing behind lights and under ladder rungs and anywhere else you can think of.

    It's all spelled out in Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    Pay close attention to the prerequisites. You won't be able to do it effectively without a proper test kit.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Order of operations?

    Richard has great advise. But if you are not able to test FC at the 24 level, and since you already have the TF-100 on order (great choice by the way), all you need to do right now is stabilize things until your kit arrives so you can SLAM via Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain. So for now, simply add one gallon of regular bleach to the pool each day - generic is fine. If you can validate pH with a simple test, then adjust it down to 7.2. Leave TA where it is for now. It can go outside the typical levels. The gallon of bleach is just to hold you over for now. Don't add stabilizer yet until after the SLAM is done, then adjust up to 70-80.
    When you get your TF-100, post a full set of results before starting the SLAM so we can validate you are ready. Oh, and for the filter, typically it gets backwashed when the pressure is 20-25% above the baseline (clean) pressure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For safety - always separate adding bleach and acid by at least 30 min with the pump running. As noted above, if you can test FC up to 24, then certainly start your SLAM. If you don't have the FAS-DPD portion to test that high, just do the gallon per day until your TF-100 arrives.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    tdp's Avatar
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    Re: Order of operations?

    Okay, my TF-100 kit finally arrived! Here's what I did in the meantime:

    First, Adjusted pH to 7.2 (by strip test)
    Last three days, added 1-121 oz container 8% bleach after dark each day

    Here are the results of my tests done a few minutes ago (I'm sure the novelty will wear off, but it was fun! Like an adult chemistry set!)

    FC 11
    CC 1.5 (at 10 PM)
    Ca 300
    TA 100? (turned sorta gray at 90, red at 100, you're looking for the red, right?)
    CYA 60
    pH between 7.5-7.8 (the pH and CYA tests seem pretty %#^€ subjective!!)
    salt 3000

    So am I ready to SLAM? I believe the chart says I need to get FC to 24 with a CYA of 60.

    Thanks, tdp

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Richard has great advise. But if you are not able to test FC at the 24 level, and since you already have the TF-100 on order (great choice by the way), all you need to do right now is stabilize things until your kit arrives so you can SLAM via Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain. So for now, simply add one gallon of regular bleach to the pool each day - generic is fine. If you can validate pH with a simple test, then adjust it down to 7.2. Leave TA where it is for now. It can go outside the typical levels. The gallon of bleach is just to hold you over for now. Don't add stabilizer yet until after the SLAM is done, then adjust up to 70-80.
    When you get your TF-100, post a full set of results before starting the SLAM so we can validate you are ready. Oh, and for the filter, typically it gets backwashed when the pressure is 20-25% above the baseline (clean) pressure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For safety - always separate adding bleach and acid by at least 30 min with the pump running. As noted above, if you can test FC up to 24, then certainly start your SLAM. If you don't have the FAS-DPD portion to test that high, just do the gallon per day until your TF-100 arrives.
    ~17,500 gal. IG Fiberglass, Viking "Cambridge"; installed 6/2015
    SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-9
    Hayward Hi-Rate Sand Filter
    Hayward Max-Flo XL pump
    TF-100 Test Kit/SpeedStir

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Order of operations?

    Good work! You've been reading. Since your FC is over 10 right now, your pH reading may be slightly off (false high reading). That happens when it's over 10. You can either let the FC come down to 9 or so and confirm the pH is between 7.2-7.4 then start your SLAM, or just go for it now. Once you start the SLAM at an FC of 24, there's no more pH testing until the SLAM is done. Make sure the SWG if off during the SLAM. No need to exhaust the cells. Just use the bleach. Good luck and let us know if you have any more questions.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    tdp's Avatar
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    Re: Order of operations?

    OK, so I SLAMed. i also backwashed my filter. The people who installed my pool said I should wait to clean filter until it was 50% above its "clean" pressure; boy, was that wrong. I think poor circulation may have contributed to getting the algae in the first place! With clean filter, and a successful SLAM, pool looks great now.

    Next questions:

    -How far down does the chlorine (FC) have to fall until I can swim?
    -I assume I need to wait for the chlorine to fall to swim levels to adjust the TA, pH and CYA?
    -If so, what order do I adjust those in?

    Thanks for all of your help!
    ~17,500 gal. IG Fiberglass, Viking "Cambridge"; installed 6/2015
    SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-9
    Hayward Hi-Rate Sand Filter
    Hayward Max-Flo XL pump
    TF-100 Test Kit/SpeedStir

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    Re: Order of operations?

    FC needs only to be at or below SLAM level to be safe.

    ph has to wait til FC is below 10.
    CYA can be tested and adjusted at any time.
    TA is not something you need to worry about too much. Since you have a SWG pH will tend to rise. As you use muriatic acid to adjust that TA will drop also.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just to be sure: Did you pass all 3 criteria before stopping the SLAM? Is the water super clear? I like the quarter teat for that.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    tdp's Avatar
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    Re: Order of operations?

    Yes, I passed the Overnight FC test and the <1 CC test. Water was not crystal clear at first, but is now that the filter has had a chance to work.

    It's really okay to swim if the FC is above 10?
    ~17,500 gal. IG Fiberglass, Viking "Cambridge"; installed 6/2015
    SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-9
    Hayward Hi-Rate Sand Filter
    Hayward Max-Flo XL pump
    TF-100 Test Kit/SpeedStir

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    Re: Order of operations?

    Yepper! The CYA is buffering the chlorine so it's effectively much lower than the testing value.

    The usual response is something like: FC at or under SLAM level, pH within 7.2 to 7.8 range, clearly see bottom.

    Cannonball!!


    ps. I have seen it suggested that you might not want to use the fancy, new suit.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Order of operations?

    Quote Originally Posted by tdp View Post
    Yes, I passed the Overnight FC test and the <1 CC test. Water was not crystal clear at first, but is now that the filter has had a chance to work.

    It's really okay to swim if the FC is above 10?
    Welcome to the forum.

    Your CC should be 0.5ppm or less at the end of the SLAM, not <1ppm.

    Was there any visible algae in the pool at all?

    Yes, with a CYA of 60ppm it is safe to swim at a FC above 10ppm, as long as it is less than your shock level and you can clearly see the bottom in the deep end.

    For future reference you should backwash when the filter pressure rises about 15-20% over clean pressure. Don't backwash at less than a 15% rise, a slightly dirty sand filter actually filters better than a squeaky clean one.

    Dom
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    tdp's Avatar
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    Re: Order of operations?

    There was a fuzzy cloudiness in the deep end. I would say it was algae, because after the SLAM I had brownish-greenish sediment on the bottom of the pool.


    ~17,500 gal. IG Fiberglass, Viking "Cambridge"; installed 6/2015
    SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-9
    Hayward Hi-Rate Sand Filter
    Hayward Max-Flo XL pump
    TF-100 Test Kit/SpeedStir

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