Here is our concept design
- Thread starter azjoshers79
- Start date
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
I really like the basic design. A couple questions and some suggestions for your consideration.
Note: the following suggestions and advice is worth exactly what I am charging for it.
1. I see what looks like a sun deck on each side of the semicircular where the net is anchored in the drawing. They both appear to be at the second step down (or about 16" below water level). Why two? It seems it would easier and provide a lot more sun shelf to just have the wall go straight and connect them into one.
2. Lose the ozone system. In an outdoor pool in sunny AZ, it serves no purpose. The sun on the pool does the exact same thing for free. Ozone systems are great in an indoor pool where there's no sun, but in a sunny outdoor pool they are just a waste of money.
3. Dekclor sounds like it may be a puck feeder to chlorinate the pool. Using pucks in a climate with very high evaporation rates is just asking for ongoing problems with CYA buildup. I would recommend that you consider either a liquid chlorine feeder or a salt water chlorine generator.
4. If you do go with a salt water chlorine generator (which I highly recommend), you will need to either change the decking and coping materials or seal the travertine to protect it.
Note: the following suggestions and advice is worth exactly what I am charging for it.
1. I see what looks like a sun deck on each side of the semicircular where the net is anchored in the drawing. They both appear to be at the second step down (or about 16" below water level). Why two? It seems it would easier and provide a lot more sun shelf to just have the wall go straight and connect them into one.
2. Lose the ozone system. In an outdoor pool in sunny AZ, it serves no purpose. The sun on the pool does the exact same thing for free. Ozone systems are great in an indoor pool where there's no sun, but in a sunny outdoor pool they are just a waste of money.
3. Dekclor sounds like it may be a puck feeder to chlorinate the pool. Using pucks in a climate with very high evaporation rates is just asking for ongoing problems with CYA buildup. I would recommend that you consider either a liquid chlorine feeder or a salt water chlorine generator.
4. If you do go with a salt water chlorine generator (which I highly recommend), you will need to either change the decking and coping materials or seal the travertine to protect it.
Chiefwej, thanks for the suggestions
1. The wife wants to Baja shelves like this. The one on the left will be second step (following code) the one in the right she wants deeper at 18 inches. But I like your suggestion, I may propose this.
2. Trying to do as much research as possible on ozone and I am mixed. Every pool builder I talked to are pushing these systems, btw all less $ than a swg. So I'm not sure. Every builder has told me that even in AZ my chlorine usage will be greatly reduced.
3. Our first choice was to go with a SWG but every builder steered us away due to maintenance issues etc. 4 major builders in the valley, all 4 said the same thing. SWG nothing but problems. So I am really confused.
4. We really want travertine so our feet don't fry. I have a friend that has a salt pool with travertine and the travertine is crumbling at points where people get in and out of the pool frequently. Really do not want acrylic and not doing concrete pavers, concrete pacers will dry your feet!!!
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1. The wife wants to Baja shelves like this. The one on the left will be second step (following code) the one in the right she wants deeper at 18 inches. But I like your suggestion, I may propose this.
2. Trying to do as much research as possible on ozone and I am mixed. Every pool builder I talked to are pushing these systems, btw all less $ than a swg. So I'm not sure. Every builder has told me that even in AZ my chlorine usage will be greatly reduced.
3. Our first choice was to go with a SWG but every builder steered us away due to maintenance issues etc. 4 major builders in the valley, all 4 said the same thing. SWG nothing but problems. So I am really confused.
4. We really want travertine so our feet don't fry. I have a friend that has a salt pool with travertine and the travertine is crumbling at points where people get in and out of the pool frequently. Really do not want acrylic and not doing concrete pavers, concrete pacers will dry your feet!!!
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I have the same experience with PB .
However, after carefully read almost all the thread in TFP regarding ozonator pros and cons . I made up my mind not to do it base on these reasons:
1/ In order for this ozonator's concept (design for residential outdoor pool) to reasonably work, most of your pool water have to go through the chamber to sanitize it. Are we sure about that?
2/ Ozone are powerful sanitizer but only present in your pool in a short period of time (about 15-20 min.). Is that enough to kill bacteria in a far side corners of your pool ?
3/ It does needs Chlorine or other type of chemical as sanitized residual agent in the pool to help - How much ?
4/ don’t take my words for it , please read more about this topics in this TFP or Google it and make your own choice.
My .02 inputs.
Tim
However, after carefully read almost all the thread in TFP regarding ozonator pros and cons . I made up my mind not to do it base on these reasons:
1/ In order for this ozonator's concept (design for residential outdoor pool) to reasonably work, most of your pool water have to go through the chamber to sanitize it. Are we sure about that?
2/ Ozone are powerful sanitizer but only present in your pool in a short period of time (about 15-20 min.). Is that enough to kill bacteria in a far side corners of your pool ?
3/ It does needs Chlorine or other type of chemical as sanitized residual agent in the pool to help - How much ?
4/ don’t take my words for it , please read more about this topics in this TFP or Google it and make your own choice.
My .02 inputs.
Tim
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
I have had a salt system for 10 years now. If I were told I couldn't have salt system, I wouldn't have a pool. It is that much easier to maintain, plus tha water feels so much better.
I've had and seen no problems with salt damaging equipment. There are five pools in my cul-de-sac, all were built at the same time ten years ago, three were built as salt and one converted to salt. Two have had to replace their heaters, but one was the only no salt pool. Four have had to replace pumps, but again one was the non salt. So much for equipment damage.
As to salt damage to stone, there is no question there. In a hot, dry climate salt will erode and damage stone. If you were in Florida the almost daily afternoon rains would wash salt from the deck. But in AZ it is an issue. My pool was designed to be a salt pool, so no stone anywhere. My deck is cantilevered edge concrete coated with textured acrylic. I have one neighbor with a section of flagstone in the deck of their (converted) salt pool. There seems to be some flaking and erosion, and it is a bit more extensive than the non salt pool.
I don't have any experiance with salt an travertine, but from what I've seen on the forum tells me it's much harder and more durable than flagstone and that it can be sealed to slow (but not completely prevent) damage from salt. So, yes the better solution is change the deck material. If neither are an option, how to chlorinate the pool.
If you spend some time reading Pool School (the button on the top right of this page) you will learn that chlorine tabs, aka pucks are not an option. They are a recipe for disaster, particularly in a hot dry climate. Any solid form of chlorine brings with it something that will create a problem. Tabs add CYA, which builds up until it becomes necessary to drain the pool to lower it. So you are left with two choices SWG (salt) or liquid chlorine. You can manually dose the pool with,liquid or use a liquid feeder, either a Liquidator (gravity feed) or a stener pump to control and add chlorine.
Spend some time reading on this forum and you will find lots of folks who have tab feeders or UV/ozone devices that they no longer use. What I do know is that you live in AZ and want a Trouble Free Pool you can't use tabs as a primary source of chlorine.
I've had and seen no problems with salt damaging equipment. There are five pools in my cul-de-sac, all were built at the same time ten years ago, three were built as salt and one converted to salt. Two have had to replace their heaters, but one was the only no salt pool. Four have had to replace pumps, but again one was the non salt. So much for equipment damage.
As to salt damage to stone, there is no question there. In a hot, dry climate salt will erode and damage stone. If you were in Florida the almost daily afternoon rains would wash salt from the deck. But in AZ it is an issue. My pool was designed to be a salt pool, so no stone anywhere. My deck is cantilevered edge concrete coated with textured acrylic. I have one neighbor with a section of flagstone in the deck of their (converted) salt pool. There seems to be some flaking and erosion, and it is a bit more extensive than the non salt pool.
I don't have any experiance with salt an travertine, but from what I've seen on the forum tells me it's much harder and more durable than flagstone and that it can be sealed to slow (but not completely prevent) damage from salt. So, yes the better solution is change the deck material. If neither are an option, how to chlorinate the pool.
If you spend some time reading Pool School (the button on the top right of this page) you will learn that chlorine tabs, aka pucks are not an option. They are a recipe for disaster, particularly in a hot dry climate. Any solid form of chlorine brings with it something that will create a problem. Tabs add CYA, which builds up until it becomes necessary to drain the pool to lower it. So you are left with two choices SWG (salt) or liquid chlorine. You can manually dose the pool with,liquid or use a liquid feeder, either a Liquidator (gravity feed) or a stener pump to control and add chlorine.
Spend some time reading on this forum and you will find lots of folks who have tab feeders or UV/ozone devices that they no longer use. What I do know is that you live in AZ and want a Trouble Free Pool you can't use tabs as a primary source of chlorine.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,403
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
+1 to EVERYTHING chiefwej has said.
The PB's want to sell you ozone because it's a cheap toy they can sell at a HUGE markup. Ozone systems for residential pools are useless for the most part as they are often completely undersized and generate very small quantities of ozone. There are threads on TFP where ozone owners have posted that their ozone cells died without them knowing and they could not see any difference in chemistry and water clarity with or without them running. As for chlorine comsumption, ozone can react with chlorine by oxidizing it to chloride (salt) which can actually INCREASE chlorine demand. Read threads on TFP, especially the technical ones that chemgeek has contributed to and you'll come to the same conclusion.
As for SWG, like the chief I would not own a pool without an SWG. I have unsealed flagstone coping (3" thick AZ flagstone, buckskin color) and concrete decking. It's holding up just fine with my salt pool. I don't know why PBs have recently started to reject salt water pools but it seems to be a trend. Perhaps the markups and kickbacks have started to come down and it's no longer beneficial financially to them.
Also have to second the chief's thoughts - stay away from pucks!!! They will screw up your water (over stabilize it) and you will get a green swamp in no time. Salt water or liquid chlorine only out here in the desert.
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The PB's want to sell you ozone because it's a cheap toy they can sell at a HUGE markup. Ozone systems for residential pools are useless for the most part as they are often completely undersized and generate very small quantities of ozone. There are threads on TFP where ozone owners have posted that their ozone cells died without them knowing and they could not see any difference in chemistry and water clarity with or without them running. As for chlorine comsumption, ozone can react with chlorine by oxidizing it to chloride (salt) which can actually INCREASE chlorine demand. Read threads on TFP, especially the technical ones that chemgeek has contributed to and you'll come to the same conclusion.
As for SWG, like the chief I would not own a pool without an SWG. I have unsealed flagstone coping (3" thick AZ flagstone, buckskin color) and concrete decking. It's holding up just fine with my salt pool. I don't know why PBs have recently started to reject salt water pools but it seems to be a trend. Perhaps the markups and kickbacks have started to come down and it's no longer beneficial financially to them.
Also have to second the chief's thoughts - stay away from pucks!!! They will screw up your water (over stabilize it) and you will get a green swamp in no time. Salt water or liquid chlorine only out here in the desert.
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You can consider techo block inca pavers. We have them and they don't get too hot. They definitely do get hotter than travertine (we have that too on a different patio) but they aren't so hot that you can't walk on them. After our coping we have a border of pavers before the inca pavers and they get smoking hot. But the INCA pavers are quite manageable.
M
M
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
I know you said you didn't want and acrylic, but a really good installer can make it look like almost any surface you can think of. Go to some of their sites online and look at the galleries. Here is one
Xcel Surfaces Patterns and Textures
Xcel Surfaces Patterns and Textures
Thanks for the great info. Just talked to my contractor to discuss pricing and changes. No additional cost to switch to Pentair SWG. So I'm deleting ozone and going back to what we originally wanted. SWCG.
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