Pool Builders assigned Pool Guy showed up - Almost rang his neck!

[iankelly]

Ok so I am new to all this - Never had a pool before. I have a TF-100 Kit and test daily, same time in the AM and I test it all typically just so I gain a better understanding of whats up with the water chem and temps etc etc. I am trying to learn.

Well the guys were installing the cover so the side gate was open and I see the pool builders pool service guy out there skimming for leaves - and the water looks super cloudy. Here is what it looked like yesterday.



Me: "Hey next time knock on the door so I know your here, and what did you put in the pool?"
Pool Guy (PG): Oh I shocked it
Me: Why?
PG: Cuz thats what you do every time
Me: did you test first?
PG: ya it needs a shock cuz it was low on chlorine and needs soda
Me: I tested this morning, I test all the time it was at 3.5 this AM and PH was 7.5 - I think that's about right
PG: Well you are supposed to shock it, it kills all the stuff and goes away in like an hour
Me: So whats in it that makes it dissipate in 1 hour - what chemicals, because I do not think anything leaves the water that fast
PG: I don't know, but it doesn't mess with the chlorine or anything
Me: Please talk with me before you put in any chemicals

I was fit to be tied, and about to go off on this guy it was everything I could do to keep some of my composure.

He tested Chlorine at 2
PH at 7.4-6
and Alkalinity at 70

He added 2 lbs Soda, 2 lbs shock, and 6lbs calcium


So TFPools folks did I just make a fool of myself? I have read tons in this forum and SLAM is the only time I have seen shock mentioned. Please help!

My tests from this AM were
FC 3.5
PH 7.5
TA 100
CH 200
CYA 60
so CSI -0.19

 

[JVTrain]

Pool guy is a moron. Next time, if you're going to continue to use their service, explicitly tell them NO CHEMICALS IN MY POOL or you don't pay them.

Pool services are based on a weekly powdered shock treatment rotation that usually leads to astronomical CYA levels, leading to unsustainable FC levels, leading to algae, leading to you draining your pool. The fact that they "pool guy" can't even tell you what he put in your pool should tell you all you need to know.

 

[Isaac-1]

JVTrain is being nice, I personally would take it to the point of telling them if I ever caught them putting chemicals in my pool I would send them a bill for a complete water change, and if they did not pay it they would be hearing from my lawyer.

Ike

p.s. hopefully the 2 pounds of shock he added was not dichlor shock, if it was he just added about 8 ppm of CYA to your pool also, if you don't have an SWG yours is already above our suggested range at 60 ppm (we consider 50 ppm to be max for a manually chlorinated pool in prime sunbelt state)

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Honestly speaking you sound like you're smart enough to figure out the pool care thing on your own. My advice is to fire the service guy and tell the PB you don't need any chemical service UNLESS this is a warranty issue. If the PB is holding the warranty hostage to using their pool service then I'd do as the others have said and tell the pool guy that he is to add nothing to the pool water without your express permission.

Unfortunately you will have to fight their ignorance with your intelligence.


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[Agent99]

How much longer will you get the 'free' pool guy service? Post some new numbers to compare to your BPG (before pool guy) numbers.

 

[iankelly]

He left at 2:25 and its 3:50 now

I retested everything and I am calling their office once I am done typing.
Temp 78
FC 27 yes 54 drops in the sample to go clear
PH 8.2
TA 110
CH 350
CYA is now 70!
CC 0.5

I will call the PB too this was a "Free month of service" offer from them - No thanks!

Many thanks to you Jvtrain - Isaac-1 and JoyfulNoise for helping me maintain some sanity

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Ugh. I'm ticked off for you now. These pool service companies are full of idiots. Absolutely no reason to add CH to your water. You live in TX, it will go up on its own naturally....how hard is that to understand!!!!

The FC will drop, no big deal there. But I would immediately get some MA on the water and drop your pH. 8.2 is the max which means it could be quite a bit higher than that with all the soda ash he added. You don't want to start scaling out all that calcium he added.


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[Agent99]

Was it SODA ash that was added or baking SODA that was added? Judging by the rise in pH, I'm guessing Matt is correct. So, yeah, muriatic acid will be needed to counteract the high pH you have right now.

On a side note, with a new pool, rising pH is often an issue. Do you see that? If so, lowering your TA might help. My pool was refinished 2 months ago and while the frequency of pH rise has gone down, I'm still adding a bit of acid once a week or so.

You might ask the pool builder how they plan to fix your 'now too high' CYA. Water change is the only way.

 

[iankelly]

We have an auto cover and the lip for the cover entry is angled at about a 45 degree so we get a good amount of splash out - I will be encouraging our boys to have fun and have a cannon ball contest. Not upset about the FC levels but the others just seem like they had a desire to dump things in the water. I called their office and guess what "Voicemail box is full" guess they have lots of other happy customers too. I will retest in the AM and get MA going to bring the PH down.

 

[JVTrain]

He left at 2:25 and its 3:50 now

I retested everything and I am calling their office once I am done typing.
Temp 78
FC 27 yes 54 drops in the sample to go clear
PH 8.2
TA 110
CH 350
CYA is now 70!
CC 0.5

I will call the PB too this was a "Free month of service" offer from them - No thanks!

Many thanks to you Jvtrain - Isaac-1 and JoyfulNoise for helping me maintain some sanity

SWEAR WORDS!

LOUD NOISES!

@#$%%$$ "pool guys"

pH may not be that high, you'll have to wait for the FC to come down to 10 ppm before you can test pH reliably. While you're waiting, I'd get on the phone and chew some tail at either the pool builder, pool guy service or preferably both...

 

[Agent99]

pH may not be that high, you'll have to wait for the FC to come down to 10 ppm before you can test pH reliably

Doh! Good catch. Missed that detail.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You can still get a pH read if you mix up a 1:1 diluted pool water sample with DISTILLED water (not tap or bottled drinking water, DISTILLED). Make the mixture, add the pH phenol red drops and read the color immediately. The distilled water cuts the FC in half but will not affect the pH. You read the color immediately as it takes time for the chlorine to react and form chlorphenol red which is what causes the false purple-red color.

Also, just to note at how stupid the pool guy is, you either add calcium OR soda ash, NEVER both at the same time. That's why your water turned cloudy. Adding calcium and soda at the same time causes calcium carbonate precipitates.


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[iankelly]

I have some distilled water around for my Humidor - did the 1:1 ratio to dilute the sample 20ML Pool Water and 20 ML Distilled poured into a 40 ML measure - PH is at least 8.2. I will be adding some MA before tomorrow as the kids really wanted to swim tonight. I have a huge overpowered VS pump so I will max out the RPMs for a few hours and stir it all up good. I pulled the tabs from the Chlorinator (which he left set to 3 of 1-6 scale) guess he thought maybe a little more FC and CYA will do the trick.

So mad at this clown

 

[Isaac-1]

I would also be concerned about that 70 ppm CYA, you may be ok with it for now as we are nearing the end of the swim season (I don't see a heater on your equipment list), just stick with non-stabilized chlorine products (liquid chlorine / bleach only). Unfortunately the only effective and practical way lower CYA is through water replacement, at 70 ppm you are going to need to replace about 1/3 of your pool water to get it down to the accepted range for a manually chlorinated pool. Don't do it now though, wait until spring as CYA does naturally degrade at a low rate (1-2% per month) and you may have heavy winter rains that dilute it some.

 

[iankelly]

Is there a calculator for reducing CYA via draining? I want to convert over to a chlorine pump over the winter and do the drain off in the spring. Anyone looking for a 2 week old Nature 2 Fusion? I have one for CHEAP!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Is there a calculator for reducing CYA via draining? I want to convert over to a chlorine pump over the winter and do the drain off in the spring. Anyone looking for a 2 week old Nature 2 Fusion? I have one for CHEAP!

PoolMath. Just enter in the before and after CYA values and it will tell you the % volume that needs to be drained.


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[iankelly]

PoolMath. Just enter in the before and after CYA values and it will tell you the % volume that needs to be drained.


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Wow never saw that line in Pool Math - Thanks!

 

[Sparkle]

You can still get a pH read if you mix up a 1:1 diluted pool water sample with DISTILLED water (not tap or bottled drinking water, DISTILLED). Make the mixture, add the pH phenol red drops and read the color immediately. The distilled water cuts the FC in half but will not affect the pH.

His FC is 27. Diluting it to 50% yields FC = 13.5.
The pH test is not reliable for FC above 10.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

His FC is 27. Diluting it to 50% would result in FC around 13.5 The pH test is not reliable for FC above 10.

It's actually not reliable above 20-25ppm. Between 10ppm and 20ppm the pH test can be performed because the conversion of phenol red to chlorphenol red by hypochlorous acid is slow. At FC concentrations near 10ppm, it can take ten's of seconds for the false red-purple color of the chlorphenol red to develop. Therefore, if you're quick in adding the drops, you can read the color before the chlorphenol red poisons the color change.

The reason why TFP does not recommend doing the pH test above 10ppm FC is because it requires quick mixing and fast color matching and not everyone can do that reliably. Therefore, since it is known that the Taylor drops always work below 10ppm, that is the recommended limit.




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[robdac]

You need to fire the pool guy as soon as you can. Try to let go of the anger.

He's only doing what he's been trained to do. Their methods and the methods here are not compatible and as the owner you have to decide which is right for you. There's no sense in trying to have a logical discussion with them about proper testing, CYA, FC, or pH. They're "professionals" and you're a pool "newbie" who knows nothing as far as they're concerned. As a newbie myself, I fired my pool guy a week after getting a test kit and discovering the FC was over 50. Yep, fifty is not a typo. For them way over chlorinating your pool is easier than ever dealing with an algae outbreak. They don't care that it's not safe, your swimsuit rots off your body, and your hair feels like a wire brush.

I'm a member of a Facebook community in my town and often discussions come up about the best pool service to hire. People rave about this or that particular company or person. These are the same people who have usually learned nothing about pools and have never tested the water in their own pool. They have absolutely no idea what the pool guy is doing but still know "he's the best!" Knowledge is power. This stuff is all fairly easy for the DIY'er willing to learn. We're not splitting the atom here.