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snachs

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Jul 19, 2015
20
West Chester, PA
Hi all,

Fantastic site. I belong to a similar one for lawn care. Love when good people get together to share good knowledge. I know I don't have my account set up properly yet but I've been lurking for a bit. I promise to become a law abiding member soon.

I just bought this house with 28K plaster pool with spa. Cartridge filter (I replaced filter media 4 weeks ago after I was quoted $800 - I did it for $120 and 20 minutes time) Full sun all day.

Water has been clear since I moved in and I've at least switched over to bleach and ordered the proper testing kit. I plan to do everything by the TFT book next year but want to make sure I handle the end of season here as well as I can.

FC 4
TC 4
CH 190
CYA 90
TA 90
PH 7.8
TDS 1400
Pho 750

So from what I've read, my main culprit right now is high CYA and therefor I'm low on FC. I've been adding about a gallon of bleach a week and again the water looks great. I have a company coming to close the pool on the 15th. They have some winterizing chems they will add that I'm sure I'm wasting a bit of money on but I'll learn and improve next year.

So what should I do in these next 10 days (I also want to be able to have the kids swim next weekend to end the season) I have some bags of Hypo-Cal that I bought before I found this site. I assume I can use those to semi-shock the pool and I can benefit from the increased CH. Is that right? What about the CYA - should I drain and refill now or just wait till spring and do it when opening?

Thanks in advance for any help. Happy Labor day to all!

Snachs
 
Welcome! :wave:

As long as there is no evidence of algae. Any cloudiness is evidence, by the way. You're good to go. Bring the FC up in line with your CYA and then you should be fine. Just watch the FC and make sure it's up where it needs to be.

And please tell me you aren't using the Frog...
 
Thanks! Should I shock at all to prep for closing? Nope, Frog is just sitting there with nothing in it. I did waste $60 on pacs and tri clor tablets before I found this site. Oh well....
pabeader said:
Welcome! :wave:

As long as there is no evidence of algae. Any cloudiness is evidence, by the way. You're good to go. Bring the FC up in line with your CYA and then you should be fine. Just watch the FC and make sure it's up where it needs to be.

And please tell me you aren't using the Frog...
Click to expand...
 
Hello snachs, and welcome. You've been doing your homework. :goodjob: Bob already gave you a heads-up on the FC. As for the cal-hypo, sure, won't hurt you right now. Definitely stay away form the tabs and pucks though. I would not bother with a drain right now for two reasons: You may lose some CYA over the winter, and depending on how your pool is winterized, you will lose/replace some water there as well. Just ride it out right now (the CYA of 90) with a little higher FC and you should be fine. Check it in the spring and adjust from there.
As for the company who will be winterizing, just be careful about what they put in your water. Make sure it's nothing with copper or any other metal. In our TFP closing procedures, we recommend Polyquat after taking the pool to shock level. Rather than type it all out for you, here's the page so you can read all the details for yourself:
Pool School - Closing an In Ground Pool
If nothing else, it should give you something to compare to when the workers show-up. If the workers have some "magic in a bottle" they plan to dump in the water, maybe ask if you can read it first, post it here, or just ask if you can add it later so you can do some research on what the ingredients are.
Other than that, you appear to be off to a great start. Welcome to TFP!
 
Thanks everyone! Will raise my FC now and keep a tight eye on all chems this week to get er balanced for closing.

From the company's website on the winterizing kit...


  • 1 qt Stain & Scale Preventative
  • 1 gal Winter Algaecide
  • 1 large winterizing cartridge (non chlorine)
  • 1 liter Pool Magic (enzyme)

Should I avoid this?


Texas Splash said:
Hello snachs, and welcome. You've been doing your homework. :goodjob: Bob already gave you a heads-up on the FC. As for the cal-hypo, sure, won't hurt you right now. Definitely stay away form the tabs and pucks though. I would not bother with a drain right now for two reasons: You may lose some CYA over the winter, and depending on how your pool is winterized, you will lose/replace some water there as well. Just ride it out right now (the CYA of 90) with a little higher FC and you should be fine. Check it in the spring and adjust from there.
As for the company who will be winterizing, just be careful about what they put in your water. Make sure it's nothing with copper or any other metal. In our TFP closing procedures, we recommend Polyquat after taking the pool to shock level. Rather than type it all out for you, here's the page so you can read all the details for yourself:
Pool School - Closing an In Ground Pool
If nothing else, it should give you something to compare to when the workers show-up. If the workers have some "magic in a bottle" they plan to dump in the water, maybe ask if you can read it first, post it here, or just ask if you can add it later so you can do some research on what the ingredients are.
Other than that, you appear to be off to a great start. Welcome to TFP!
Click to expand...
 
Many algaecides tend to add copper which can stain or have an effect on hair (green). I'd have to do a little digging on the Pool Magic and Stain & Scale Preventative. If it's something already paid for as part of your package, maybe they'll let you add it after they leave (if you chose to do so) so that you have some time to evaluate the ingredients?

- - - Updated - - -

Pool Magic (Phos-Free) appears to be a product designed to reduce phosphates which algae like to feed upon. We typically do not recommended the use of phosphate reducers since with TPF pool care, there is no algae to feed on phosphates. So basically it's waste of money.
 
Hello snachs, and Welcome to TFP :wave:,

One other thing I'd like to mention is that we generally suggest that a pool not be closed/winterized until the temperature is below 60F, and that the pool be reopened before the temp gets above 60F to help prevent opening to a green pool. I didn't know with you being a new pool owner if your were aware that closing when the water/outside temps are still too warm can create a perfect environment for algae to grow?

I hope this helps. Have a fun and safe Labor Day.
 
Hmmm. I did read that but forgot and took a gamble on scheduling the appointment. Looks like we will still be in the 80s that week so I'll see if I can push it. The wife has asked me to close it because I spend too much time out there cleaning it (I need to get a robot!) and she wants me to help unpack the rest of the house!

Tangent question - Robots.... is there such a thing as off season sales in the pool world or did I just do myself a disservice by not purchasing one 4 weeks ago to help with the end of this season? I have an old Rayvac pressure side but it's worthless so I'm manually vacuuming etc and it's getting more intense as the beginnings of fall debris start. Another reason I wanted to close before the bulk of fall hits.
 

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So this is interesting for me and I'm sure the norm around here... Tested at Leslie's on Saturday. Add Acid, Calcium Hardiness, and lots of Chlorine.

Turns out my TFT-100 came Saturday and I just didn't know it. Tested again today at Leslie's and then just now with the TFT-100. Nothing drastic but interesting and exemplifies why home testing is needed. Aside from keeping FC up like suggested (and bailing on hypo-cal) should I be considering anything else?

Friday LesliesMonday LesliesMonday- TFT 100
FAC448.5
TAC448.5
CH190290500
CYA9090100+
TA 90120
120
PH87.67.8
Phosphates750100n/a
TDS1400n/a (broken)n/a
 
Keep a close eye on your pH as it is at the top of the range. More than anything right now, your CYA concerns me. If it's over 100, it could be more than you think. Have you ever tried the diluted test method for CYA? Try this:
Add pool water to bottom of sticker.
Add tap water to top of sticker.
Shake.
Pour out half so mixture is to bottom of sticker.
Add reagent to top of sticker.
Shake.
Test outside with back to sun and tube at waist level.
Pour back and forth a few times to see if you get the same result.
Double the result.

It may help give you a more accurate result.
 
Nope, first time hearing that suggestion. Just did it. Between 50-55 so 100-110 CYA. I did just have the hose in the pool for 1.5 hours since I'm extending the closing I wanted to prep for another hot week. I'll adjust PH tomorrow and retest everything later this week.


Texas Splash said:
Keep a close eye on your pH as it is at the top of the range. More than anything right now, your CYA concerns me. If it's over 100, it could be more than you think. Have you ever tried the diluted test method for CYA? Try this:
Add pool water to bottom of sticker.
Add tap water to top of sticker.
Shake.
Pour out half so mixture is to bottom of sticker.
Add reagent to top of sticker.
Shake.
Test outside with back to sun and tube at waist level.
Pour back and forth a few times to see if you get the same result.
Double the result.

It may help give you a more accurate result.
Click to expand...
 
So I have the TF-100 kit and am now hooked on testing (speed stir on order) and I'm struggling to get things balanced. You can see my chart above with results from over the weekend.

- I've added acid twice - 20 Oz this morning and the PH just tested at 7.8 still with TA of 120
- I did the overnight FC loss test last night and passed with flying colors but FC has now dropped to 5 (I am full sun all day)

So, being that I'm limited to applying one thing at a time, what's my best path forward tonight? More acid? More bleach? I should be maintaining 7-10 FC at my CYA over 100 and Pool math tells me 20oz of acid to go down to 7.6...should I even go lower?

I'm a bit curious why I'm not moving the needle at all on PH. Maybe user error on the testing? I could of course do Acid tonight and bleach in the morning but I'm at 36 hours straight with the pump running so I don't want to keep that up if I can avoid it.

So as a former middle school math teacher, I'm looking for advice on the best order of operations. PEMDAS is failing me here. Additional data if relevant - I certainly have an air leak somewhere and see bubbles in my returns. Nothing crazy but can't find and fix it yet. I believe that might raise ph? We are also expecting heavy rains tomorrow if that influences the advice.

Random question as well - what is the rationale behind wiping the tip of the chem for TA testing between each drop?

Thanks!
 
No worries. You can adjust both pH and FC tonight. First let's get that pH down with acid. Use the Poolmath calculator to get yourself down to around 7.2-7.4. Once the acid has mixed for at least 30 min with the pump running, and your pH is where you want it, you are clear to slowly add bleach to bring your FC up to the required level. Because of your high CYA and corresponding high FC, remember that if your FC is at 10 or higher, pH will show (falsely) high as well. Always test pH when the FC is below 10.
As for the wiping of the bottle, it's to help with static discharge. Not a problem for everyone, only when they believe there are some very slight differences in test results. You should be okay for now. I rarely have to do it. :)

- - - Updated - - -

TIP: Also remember that anything that generates bubbles and aerates the water (waterfall, spa spillway, fountain, etc) will slowly raise pH.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, bubbles in your returns huh? While your chemicals are mixing, you might want to try everything on this page: Pool School - Suction Side Air Leaks. See if any of those things help.
 
Thanks Pat! I knew the high FC impacts PH readings which is why let it drift down....

ok, off to add 40 oz of acid now and then a gallon of bleach before bed. I thought it was 4 hours minimum between applications - another pool store myth or maybe exaggeration to avoid liability?

Working on the air leak. My pump basket o ring is brittle but I don't see any signs of air in there but starting with replacing that...
 
You are correct about the 4 hour rule ... pool store lingo. TFP recommends 30 minutes minimum. You can go longer if you want, but not really necessary with good circulation. A brittle O-ring is always suspect for a leak. Hopefully you have some good pool lube (i.e. Magic Lube) to coat the ring really well and/or replace it. Never use petroleum jelly. Good luck!
 

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