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Thread: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Hi Everyone,

    We have had this pool/home for 8 years and in the next couple years we plan to replace the aluminum coping and liner.

    My thought has been pavers with a track under it for the new liner. We live in ND so it gets cold and would like some opinions on the type of coping to go with. I was thinking of just either repouring the concrete with a bullnose and a track underneath it so that I could attach the liner properly. I have seen this done to many others in the past.

    Our coping comes undone from the old cement and I have been able to attach it for now, but since my liner is fading and I figure that in a year or two that we need to replace it anyway, I may as well do the coping too. Below is my plan for this upgrade to the pool but I want to keep the budget in check since we only get 5 months of a pool season up here.

    1. replace liner
    2. replace coping with a track system for liner
    3. metal return pipe to cut out and replace with PVC
    4. repour the floor of the pool to fill int he cracks and smooth it out like it should have been done the first time
    5. Possibly replace part of the concrete patio in order for it to drain away from the house properly when it rains
    6. Put in a new driveway
    7. replace the cement steps and flower area in the front of the house
    8. replace the carpet upstairs and downstairs in the house


    So as you can see, my plan to do all the above will cost I think in that $30-$35k range. Pulling some of it out is going to be done by myself, but I really am in the starting phases of doing all this and am looking for ideas on what some of you have already done on the pool coping more specifically. The other stuff I kind of have an idea on or the WIFEY has things already picked out. I guess I just have to decide when and get the financing in order so next year I plan to start contacting my pool contractor and then start the process about this time next year to do this in 2017.

    So long story short, shoot me any pics or ideas you all have done and seem to have good sucess in the north up here where the coping wont crack or break up. That is my concern right now and I am a HUGE planner as I want it done right the first time. My contractor builds pools all over ND and is an awesome dude from the past 8 years that I have been working with him so I will likely use him to bid it out and run with it.

    Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks everyone and Happy Labor Day everyone!

    Chad
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    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Anybody? Just looking for some ideas people. Thanks!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Its a bit of a job, but you could saw out the first foot or 18 of concrete all around the pool and replace it with a nice stone coping all around.
    you might be able to install a cantilever "coping' or liner track on top of the pool walls to hang the liner in.
    The tricky part about this of course is what kind of steps you have.

    The pic on the TFP Home Page is an example of what Im talking about.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool




    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Steps are lined too. Seen many examples online so will price out next year with pool company as their website has good examples. Really comes down to cost. Another thought is to just repair it? Take out the damaged concrete and repour it on top of the existing couping? I think the wifey would rather see a total replacement, but we will see . I like the bullnose coping stones where you laydown the track first and then put the coping on top of them.

    Thanks for the reply!


    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    After discussing some with the pool company, they convinced me to just replace the liner and they would likely repair the needed coping areas with a construction concrete adhesive that will likely fix my issues.

    Though redoing the pool would look nice, it also comes with an expensive price tag and since we only have it open 5 months of the year, it just did not seem like a smart long term investment.

    So now the plan is to redo the driveway, possibly the back patio due to how it curves towards the house which causing issues when it rains, replace pool liner, replace the metal return line with a PVC line, and then fix the cracks in the pool concrete base so that it is done properly.

    Plus the wifey would like a few things done inside the house too so I better stay with the "happy wife, happy life" kind of thing.

    Still planning to quote this out next summer/fall time frame to properly start to budget things out.

    Any thoughts on that? Oh and I talked to an appraiser I know and stated that up here the pools really dont add or take away from the value of your home so when people start to plan out their remodels, these kind of things must be taken into consideration or you will out price your value on your home versus what the market brings. I think too many people do this and they say they never plan to move. Well, I am never married to an asset and to me, everything is for sale for the right price. Making yourself comfortable and happy doesnt necessarily have to be so expensive. Investing your money in your retirement and planning a happy balance to life makes much more sense.

    Have a great weekend everyone!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    I think you're taking a good approach to the project.

    Replacing the coping would be nice, but at the end of the day, is it worth the money? If you dont intend to ever move, then perhaps it is. But if you do intend to move, then likely the money would be better invested in other areas of the home.

    As for the real estate value thing. The realtors will tell you a pool doesnt add value. Thats probably true in the context of making a quick sale.

    The majority folks looking to buy a house dont want a pool because of the horror stories they've hear about maintaining it, or that they are worried about the safety of little ones, or any additional insurance associated with owning a pool. All the negative stuff.

    The real estate folks will put a "market value" on the house because of these reasons and it wont be in favor of the seller.

    On the other hand, if a person like you and I were in the market for a home, a pool would be an asset, so we didn't have to go through the build process. The value to a Pool Interested buyer is higher, but the market for that is much smaller. This means more time on the market which the real estate folks dont like and so they adjust the price of homes with pools just to get them sold and collect their commission.

    Its all about turning over the inventory quick.

    What really IRKS me, at least where I live, is they use the "negative aspects" of pool ownership to price the home lower, and then when they put the For Sale sign in the front yard, they also put a great big "INGROUND POOL" sign there too, as if having a pool adds more value to the home. Grrrr!

    I have about as much apprectiation in real estate tactics, as I do legal tactics.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Ya, I agree. Those guys are idiots when it comes to truly understanding the value of what a pool brings to your home. ND has been increasing in population lately so actually our home values have been rising. Another reason to start some home projects.

    Also on a side note, if you are refinancing your home or adding a home improvement project loan; then I highly recommend you do it NOW. I am a loan officer and do feel that the FED will be increasing their rates over the next 6 months. Possibly as early as late December or January. The meet here in December. I just did mine and locked in an awesome 3% rate for a 15 year fixed product. Another reason why I am doing some home improvements.

    Getting the funding now and then taking the time to bid out the right construction guys. Taking my time and being the general contractor on all my planned projects this year is going to save me money plus I get to learn the "bones" of the pool and possibly some other aspects of the home itself. I also plan to fix some concrete patio area in the back yard as the water kind of drains towards the house due to the sagging concrete so that could be fairly expensive too and I want it done right.

    Appreciate your comments Dave. Always a pleasure visiting with ya and getting your recommendations are very useful. Plus I love your TF100 kits. Love the fact that I never need a pool company to mess with my water again is a very gratifying thing.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family bud!

    Take Care!

    Chad
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Getting closer to finally starting my liner replacement and a few other home remodel projects. One of those is replacing the patio by the house and Pool. That way the concrete drains away from the home. Since we purchased it in 2007, this has really bothered me so now we can fix it so when it rains heavy, it will drain away from the home properly. The pool liner was never done right and the previous owners did such a junk job of installation.

    I plan to fix the cracks and smooth out the bottom, vermiculite the basin area at the deep end, replace a metal return line, and then put in return valves with a type of valve where you can blow out the lines without having to drain the pool water down so low. Pool coping will also get a fix from the pool guys and once it is all done including the patio concrete replacement, I will then paint it all in the color of textured valspar paint that I have now to make it all look very similar. It is going to look awesome when it is done, but will take some time and about $15k in cash by the way I have it figured.

    We just want it done right so that when we take care of the pool maintenance, it is done right and makes the liner last longer.

    Any ideas guys on liner design or liner manufacturers where some are better than others? The local contractor for the pool is very good and well respected in the state so that should not be an issue and the rest of the local concrete vendors should be good too. Just gathering ideas so we can speed this sucker along.

    Thanks for any suggestions!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Planning to open the pool this week. Warm winter and overall nice weather will allow me to open about 2 weeks early this year. Plan then is to have all my pool updates completed this year. My pool company is coming out to measure liner and get started on putting together a bid for the upgrade to the pool I want done. Some of those things will be patching the cracks, redoing the vermiculite in the base, removing metal return line and replace with PVC line, new liner, fix aluminum coping in a couple areas, and then I should be good to go. My hope is to have this done in Mid June so its warmer out and allow liner to stretch properly.

    I am going with a 20mill liner as after a bunch of research, I found that most put a 20 mill on the floor and either a 20 or 27 mill on the walls. I plan to just do 20 mill everywhere with a padding for the walls and stairs like it should be. My wife just picked out a design and it was one we both liked. Should be good.

    I plan to go ahead and take pictures of the construction work periodically as they move along and hope to document the work. I most likely will document in another construction thread of the work so everyone can see this 40+ year old pool. I am curious to see whats under the liner and how bad the cracks are. Have a feeling that we may need to coat an inch thick layer of shot-crete across the whole thing? Hope not, but kind of expecting it at worst case.

    Wish me luck!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Pool project began. Tore out the old liner which was just shot. What we found underneath was not as bad as I first thought. The trowel job that they did for the vermiculite was bad. Some cracks and water is seeping which will not stop as that is just the way it has been here. The pool is 40 years old. Found that the metal line was not a metal line but a metal end? We are really not sure so the pool guys are gonna cut it out and replace it properly, refill the hole they made in concrete, and put 3 bags of ready mix to replace it. I will then re-caulk the joints and then once job is done the patio will fully be repainted.

    I also did replace the patio up against the pool so we found a big void and backfilled that. The good news is that the pool is bonded with copper wire, and that the footers were done correctly to hole the stainless steel walls together. Its metal walls which also surprised me and should save time and money.

    The only thing they need to do is grind down some of the vermiculite ends and do some patch work in the corners and in the base of the bottom where the water is seeping in. Then they said they would lay the liner right away and get the 10,000 gallons of water that they have in rubber bladders around my pool put in with the balance of the water to be filled by my house which would likely take a couple days.

    I hope to have this sucker going by mid week next week. I am really happy that the repairs look like they wont be as expensive as we first thought which is very good considering my daughter is having a baby in the fall and may need a little help from dear old dad!

    I attached the pick right after they pulled the liner out. Some seeping but not horrible. Its raining now and I am using a small pump and my wetvac to finish sucking out the water from the deep end to try and keep it as dry as I can. Then Sunday looks to be sunny and warm so I will finish sucking out the water and hope the seeping slows down some. I will vac it one last time Monday am before work and let the guys do their thing when they arrive. Thinking about just taking Monday off anyway just to monitor them and answer their questions. Plus I plan to oversee it all as I want it done right.

    Enjoy the pic as I plan to add more later.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    I have also read on here about various ideas and well points to take water pressure off the pool. I already have that with my sump pump in my house which is right next to the pool. The old liner was in for 15 years and had no issues at all with water behind the liner or such so I know the seeping is very minimal. I plan to have the pool guys do the vermiculite and lay the liner. I do believe the weight of the liner with the water in it is plenty fine as the seeping is not like a steady stream or anything like that.

    Little algae on the walls and bottom is from the seeping but never ever came through the liner and I had a 20 mill liner that lasted many years. Life span to me from the research and the pool professionals is about 15 years due to fading mostly and not from the compromising of the liner shell itself. The nice thing is that these guy warranty their work and I have had them for many years along with many other people that I know in this whole state.

    I just go out 2 times a day and shop vac the water up. Usually only fills it half way full is all from the seeping. We have had a lot of rain this past 2 weeks so I really am not too worried about putting vermiculite patches down and laying the liner right after. Thats the beauty of vermiculite is that you dont have to wait for it to cure unless it was a huge patch job and this wont be. I know many people would disagree, but hey, this thing is an old pool and its worked this long so I dont plan to stick tons of cash into this project since it worked well for all these years prior. If I lived in an area with a year round pool, then a larger redo of the base would be done and a well point professionally installed would be the case. I just hope the rain stops so that it can dry out tomorrow for the most part and then just the base seeping issues to deal with is all.

    Thoughts on my plan anyone?
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Here are the final results. No virmiculite needed once we cleaned up the horrible trowel work that previous owners did and really the water is now sparkly clean. Turned out much better than anticipated which will hopefully result in some cost savings for sure.

    Enjoy the pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Last thing now on the list is to repaint the whole patio with my nonskid paint and she will look like a million bucks.

    I am now contemplating re-doing my firepit area to include pavers or something so that people can enjoy the firepit in the evenings while swimming. That may come over the next month.

    For now, working on adding CYA to the pool since over half was drained in the liner restall so need to get it in that 20-30 range to start with and then continue to add trichlor with the inline chlorinator. The TF100 test kit has worked for me for over 9 years now since we owned this house and its still going strong with this website for assistance. Always good ideas as most of them I have done by myself either than the liner which of course took some assistance and would not recommend doing it without professionals in my opinion.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    Very nice! What liner did you choose? It looks fantastic!

    C.N.
    IG vinyl liner 20x40 Pool, Hayward S-240 Sand Filter and Hayward pump in basement
    Indoor Jacuzzi spa 500 gallons, Spa Marvel
    Rochester, NY

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    Re: Gathering Ideas to replace Coping & Liner - Upgrade to pool

    I chose a liner called : Key West

    Here is the attached link: Key West

    Its made from Tara Manufacturers and the product that they have is 20 mill. It fits great and my pool contractors are called My Aquatic Services and here is their link: My Aquatic Services | Pool Installation | Fargo, ND

    They all did a fantastic job and could not be more pleased.
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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