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Thread: New pool -PH seems unstable

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    New pool -PH seems unstable

    Pool has been running now for 2 weeks Water looks clear. test # as of today Are ( just topped off pool added 2" water waited 2 hrs before testing)
    PH- 7.5
    CC - .5
    FC-2.5
    TC - 3
    CH - 250
    TA 340
    CYA - 30

    I think the # are ok I added Chlorine to raise the level to 4. any comment on the numbers would be Appreciated. I think the TA is high

    I have been having alot of trouble keeping PH low. or maybe this is normal. Does hard water cause high TA?

    Aug 25 PH 7.5, Aug 26 - 7.8, Aug 27 - 8.2 Added MA ph dropped to 7.2, Aug 28 PH 7.5, Aug 29 - ph 7.5
    Aug 30 ph 8.2 Added MA reduced to 7.8 Sept 1 - ph 8.2 added MA reduced ph to 7.2 Sept 2 PH 7.5

    This is what I was going to do

    The acid/aeration process to lower TA:
    1. Add acid to lower your PH to between 7.0 and 7.2 (this also lowers TA)
    2. Aerate until PH rises to around 7.6 (the only way to raise PH without also raising TA)
    3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until you reach the desired TA


    Any other comments on the # would be appreciated . ThaNKS
    AG - Round pool 27'x52" aprox 17200 gallons Manufacturer & Model Unknown
    Sand filter - Swim pro Model # SW256T - 250 lb High rate sand filter ( used glass not sand)Effective Filtration Area 3.22 ft2 Filtration Rate 25 GPM/ft
    Hayward Matrix pump - Motor 2 Hp W/ Switch ( SP1520Z1ESC) Heater - RayPac 150,000 BTU Test Kit - TF 100 Test Kit - pool is filled with softened well water

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    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    how are you testing your water? are you using one of the recommended test kits? are you sure about your TA being 340?? that is really really high and im surprised your pH is 7.5 to be honest.

    as far as lowering your TA, you have it right

    is your pool staying at 7.5? if so, that is perfect. really, up to 7.8 will be ok.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Keeping your Alkalinity at 80-120 helps maintain a steady pH level. Muriatic Acid will lower your pH, but you won't have to use it as much if you can keep your Alkalinity levels balanced in the ideal ranges.

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    How are you chlorinating?

    Are you doing your own testing?

    What test kit are your using?
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    I'm doing my own testing with the TF- 100 test kit. PS liking the test kit i think its fun!!! I'm adding chlorine bleach - 13.75%. That's the problem I have been having I get the ph lowered and within 24 - 36 hrs the ph is up to 8.2 actually i think its over 8.2 because when i put the numbers in pool math to lover the ph to 7.2 i only got to 7.2 once after adding MA. Yes I'm pretty sure about the TA #'s. Color just barely turned at 33 drops and color didn't change significantly after adding 35-38 drops of the R-0009. I mixed with a small spoon wiping off between each drop. because first test i did said TA was 420. Is there anything else i should be checking we do have hard water and this time - which was This morning - i topped off the pool with soft water - my husband added a line from our water softener out to the pool.
    AG - Round pool 27'x52" aprox 17200 gallons Manufacturer & Model Unknown
    Sand filter - Swim pro Model # SW256T - 250 lb High rate sand filter ( used glass not sand)Effective Filtration Area 3.22 ft2 Filtration Rate 25 GPM/ft
    Hayward Matrix pump - Motor 2 Hp W/ Switch ( SP1520Z1ESC) Heater - RayPac 150,000 BTU Test Kit - TF 100 Test Kit - pool is filled with softened well water

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Try testing your water without using a spoon to mix it. Swirling the tube is all the mixing that's required. If swirling the tube is difficult (i.e., my mother has arthritis and can't swirl for very long at all), check out the SpeedStir from TFTestKits.

    When testing, we're looking for the point at which adding another drop does not change the color of the sample. So, in your case, if adding a 37th drop does not change the color, your TA is 360.

    As quickly as your pH keeps rising, I don't doubt your TA is high. You can either keep lowering pH to 7.2 until it starts to level out (slower process), or lower pH to 7.2 and aerate (quicker, but still might take a bit to lower TA).

    Edited to add: Take a look at the YouTube video instructions for the TF-100. (Link to TA video). They helped me a lot when I first got my kit.
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Did the swirling like in the video and the TA was actually higher 360
    AG - Round pool 27'x52" aprox 17200 gallons Manufacturer & Model Unknown
    Sand filter - Swim pro Model # SW256T - 250 lb High rate sand filter ( used glass not sand)Effective Filtration Area 3.22 ft2 Filtration Rate 25 GPM/ft
    Hayward Matrix pump - Motor 2 Hp W/ Switch ( SP1520Z1ESC) Heater - RayPac 150,000 BTU Test Kit - TF 100 Test Kit - pool is filled with softened well water

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    I splurged and bought the speed stir when I bought my kit and highly recommend it.

    My pH was increasing (although not as rapidly as yours) and after a few of the cycles of 7.2 and aeration to raise, it has started to become more stable. My TA was only 120 or so and I'm much more stable around 70-80.
    John - 16,000 gallon | in ground | pebble | Triton II sand filter | TF100 | speedstir | Hayward Phoenix 2x

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    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Gail/Dave View Post
    Did the swirling like in the video and the TA was actually higher 360
    have you tested your fill water?? TA of 360 is really high. are you on a well? with a TA of 360 you are going to have a hard time managing your pH. the TA can be lowered as you are doing, but it is going to take a while. but before you do that, I would test your fill water. if your TA is really high in your fill water its going to be a tougher battle. if your TA in your fill water is reasonable, any idea how your TA got so high?

    the process you are doing for lowering TA is correct, just have to keep at it. as your TA starts to go down, you should be seeing the pH rise slowing down. eventually you get to a point where your pH rise is pretty slow and then you are done. that could mean a TA of 50, or 150, each pool is different. just keep doing what you are doing and post back results from testing of your fill water.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    So what do you do if your fill water does have high TA? Are you just resigned to periodic MA additions to keep it in check?

    Just out of curiosity, what's the top end of TA for fill water?
    John - 16,000 gallon | in ground | pebble | Triton II sand filter | TF100 | speedstir | Hayward Phoenix 2x

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinic View Post
    So what do you do if your fill water does have high TA? Are you just resigned to periodic MA additions to keep it in check?

    Just out of curiosity, what's the top end of TA for fill water?
    My fill TA is 800, so not sure how much higher it can go but it can at least go that high. I never aerate or do anything to purposefully lower the TA, I just add acid as needed. For me that is almost daily in the Spring after I open (TA jumps up to around 300), then it stabilizes around mid-summer and I only have to add a bit when I need to top off. Luckily this year rain has been plentiful so top-offs have been infrequent.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Donldson View Post
    My fill TA is 800, so not sure how much higher it can go but it can at least go that high. I never aerate or do anything to purposefully lower the TA, I just add acid as needed. For me that is almost daily in the Spring after I open (TA jumps up to around 300), then it stabilizes around mid-summer and I only have to add a bit when I need to top off. Luckily this year rain has been plentiful so top-offs have been infrequent.
    Man that's high. I guess I didn't consider places where rain would keep filling to a minimum. Here, we're constantly adding water to keep the level up. I've never tested my fill water for anything. I need to do that just so I know.
    John - 16,000 gallon | in ground | pebble | Triton II sand filter | TF100 | speedstir | Hayward Phoenix 2x

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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Can a person actuall add to much MA I Have reduced TA from 440 to 170 as of today PH is still very unstable my goal TA is below 120
    My original fill water TA was 440, Softened Fill water TA is 330

    I have been adding 1-1.5 gal of MA every 2-3 days to lower the ph to 7.1 using the pool math calculator and i have also been aerating. also since last post I have added probably 6 inches of new fill water used soft water from house)

    These are my new numbers as of today: Addition of chemicals where added using Pool Math Calculator
    PH - 7.8 Added 88 oz of 31.35% - 20 Baume to lower ph to 7.1
    FC -1 Added 52 oz of 12.5% Bleach to raise to 4
    TC -1
    CH - 250
    TA - 170
    CYA- 20 Added 11oz of the 22oz of CYA pool math suggested. will check CYA again and add more as needed

    So i will just keep doing what i'm doing to reduce TA to stabilize ph right?? just looking for reassurance and is there anything else i should be doing?.
    Last edited by Gail/Dave; 09-16-2015 at 11:43 AM. Reason: add more info
    AG - Round pool 27'x52" aprox 17200 gallons Manufacturer & Model Unknown
    Sand filter - Swim pro Model # SW256T - 250 lb High rate sand filter ( used glass not sand)Effective Filtration Area 3.22 ft2 Filtration Rate 25 GPM/ft
    Hayward Matrix pump - Motor 2 Hp W/ Switch ( SP1520Z1ESC) Heater - RayPac 150,000 BTU Test Kit - TF 100 Test Kit - pool is filled with softened well water

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Gail/Dave, every pool is different, so I would venture to say that you will need to continue to play the 'acid-aeration" game until they find that happy-place and stabilize. You have no plaster, no SWG, and apparently no aeration unless applied on purpose to raise pH, so it is probably that high TA that is dragging your pH up each week. I think you're on the right track. In the meantime though, definitely watch your FC. Cooler weather will be a bit more forgiving, but you never want to take a chance on it getting that low. Good call on raising that CYA up a bit as well.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Should I add borax to raise the ph or hold off? I have been working on lowering TA to Stabilize ph. I have been using the TFP way to reduce TA by adding MA and Aerating and its working! Thanks all for all the info!! I have lovered TA from 440 to 140 Don't know if it matters but we will be closing the pool in the next week or so for the winter Temperature this morning in MN is 54 was in the pool anyway we heat pool to 81

    these are my new #
    PH - 7.2 has been that for 2 days now first time in 6 weeks since opening pool ph hasn't risen overnight
    TA - 140
    FC - 2.5
    CC - .5
    TC - 3
    CH 250
    CYA - didnt test just addend CYA 3 days ago to raise CYA
    AG - Round pool 27'x52" aprox 17200 gallons Manufacturer & Model Unknown
    Sand filter - Swim pro Model # SW256T - 250 lb High rate sand filter ( used glass not sand)Effective Filtration Area 3.22 ft2 Filtration Rate 25 GPM/ft
    Hayward Matrix pump - Motor 2 Hp W/ Switch ( SP1520Z1ESC) Heater - RayPac 150,000 BTU Test Kit - TF 100 Test Kit - pool is filled with softened well water

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New pool -PH seems unstable

    Great job on the TA! Wow, what a drastic change. And it shows in your more-stable pH. The only thing I would suggest now is watching your FC that it doesn't get too low. Anytime you get down to the 2-3 level, you're inviting the green monster. Temps are beginning to drop a bit, but you don't want to deal with algae just before closing for the season. Really great work. I would not add any borax at this time. Your pH may creep-up again over time, maybe not. But as long as it doesn't get any lower than 7.2, you should be fine. Have a great day.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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