PH Testing

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meatloaf

meatloaf

0
Feb 10, 2008
373
Gilbert AZ
I know that the causes of rising PH are scattered throughout this forum, but is it possible to get a list of possible causes?
My pool seems to require about 10oz of 31.5% MA every other day. Is this considered normal?
Test results:
CL 3
TA 80
PH 7.6
CYA 45
CH 490
Salt 2100

Thanks
 
The amount of PH increase you describe is plausible if your plaster is less than one year old or you have a significant source of aeration, for example a waterfall, negative edge, or lots of kids swimming.

The most common cause of PH rise is high TA combined with aeration. Your TA isn't too high, but I would still expect a little PH rise from that.

Fresh plaster, less than one year old, will raise the PH. This effect is dramatic for the first several weeks, and then slows down.

Some off-brand bleach contains noticeable amounts of excess lye, which will raise the PH. This isn't very common and has not been seen with Clorox bleach.

Some areas occasionally get significant amounts of very alkaline dust blown in, which can raise the PH.
 
How often do you run the waterfall? My suggestion would be to drop the TA a bit more to about 60 ppm. Your CH is high enough that this should not be a problem. your water will still be balanced.

When you add the acid how high has your pH risen and how high are you lowering it? i would not add acid until the pH hits 7.8 and would not lower it below 7.5. The more you lower the pH the faster it will rise. (The faster CO2 will outgas.)
 
meatloaf said:
I haven't added any borates because I have a dog that drinks from the pool. We can't seem to stop her from doing it.
What level do you recommend I drop the TA to?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Drop it to 60ppm and start training the dog NOT to drink from the pool, then add the borates. I did it with three dogs and a cat. A watergun and a loud "NO" when then drink from the pool and a treat when they drink from the full dish you keep outside near the pool is effective. You DO keep a full waterdish by the pool at all times, don't you?

This is an easy training that should not take more than a week or two if you are dedicated to it.
 
I understand what you're saying about training the dog but my Wife and I both work during the day and the dog just goes in and out the doggie door whenever she feels the need. We do keep a dish of fresh water in the house but the dog prefers pool water and toilet water. (Strange dog :lol: ) I'll try lowering the TA to 70-75 and see if that helps.
Thanks again for all you're advice.
 
meatloaf said:
I understand what you're saying about training the dog but my Wife and I both work during the day and the dog just goes in and out the doggie door whenever she feels the need. We do keep a dish of fresh water in the house but the dog prefers pool water and toilet water. (Strange dog :lol: ) I'll try lowering the TA to 70-75 and see if that helps.
Thanks again for all you're advice.
Click to expand...
Lower the TA to 60 and train the dog. I work 2 jobs....3 in the summer, and I'm also taking college courses so I understand about time constraints but that is no excuse for not training your dog.
 

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waterbear said:
Drop it to 60ppm and start training the dog NOT to drink from the pool, then add the borates.
Click to expand...

Would you please explain the reason to add borates (Borax). I am new to BBB but when reading the pool school on BBB adding borates increases the pH and this post was about the pH raising on it's own even after adding MA. Is it because of the TA at 60?
 
Borates buffer the PH, so the PH changes more slowly than it otherwise would.

Borax raises the PH in addition to adding borates. If you are adding Borax to raise the borate level you would also add acid to cancel out the PH change. Another way to raise the borate level is to use boric acid, which lowers the PH just slightly and also adds borates.
 
How are you chlorinating your pool? With a SWCG, rising pH is normal and expected. If you are using bleach, then it might be that the type of bleach you are using has a high caustic soda level. I have a 7,500 gal pool with a SWCG and I add about 20 to 30 oz of acid per week. In my case the acid consumption is tied to the setting of the SWCG.
 
JasonLion said:
Borates buffer the PH, so the PH changes more slowly than it otherwise would.

Borax raises the PH in addition to adding borates. If you are adding Borax to raise the borate level you would also add acid to cancel out the PH change. Another way to raise the borate level is to use boric acid, which lowers the PH just slightly and also adds borates.
Click to expand...

Learn something everyday here I thought the TA buffered the pH. I add only Clorox bleach from Sams club, the pool is 11 years old (plaster) and I need to add MA weekly because it drifts up to 7.8 fairly fast. TA is 80-90 depending on the when I add MA. I have very little aeration either.
 
I fought that pH rise constantly when the pool was built last year, until someone told me that the new pool would do that. So instead of daily worry and battling I just let it run up to 7.8 and then would add lots of acid to get it down to 7.2 and then test TA after a day... I ran the pump and waterfall 24/7 for six months after installation. I finally had to raise the TA after about 3 months....did that with (shudder) chemicals because I hadn't found this place yet :(

Now after 10 months the pH rises a bit more slowly and I add a little acid now and then. TA is up a bit higher than "recommended" (100 yesterday) but pool continues to look great and other tests are pretty good though I might boost my CYA and FC (60 and 2+) a bit. My waterfall runs at least 8 hours a day. Will just boosting my SWG get my FC up or should I add the recommended bleach (23 oz). SWG is currently only running at 25% and salt is 3200.

My real goal is ADD NOTHING 8) Is this possible? Last year my SWG ran on 10-15% 24 hours per day and my chlorine (didn't know about FC) remained above 1.5. Other than pH rise as referenced above, no issues at all.
 
chezhed said:
My real goal is ADD NOTHING 8) Is this possible?
Click to expand...

I think so if you have no dilution issues or don't have to add water.... All I added to my pool in 2 summers is bleach. Yes, I'm bragging. :mrgreen:

This spring I'll have to add CYA as it was down to 20 at the end of last season. Lovin' BBB!
 
dschlic1 said:
How are you chlorinating your pool? With a SWCG, rising pH is normal and expected. If you are using bleach, then it might be that the type of bleach you are using has a high caustic soda level. I have a 7,500 gal pool with a SWCG and I add about 20 to 30 oz of acid per week. In my case the acid consumption is tied to the setting of the SWCG.
Click to expand...
That is a LOT of acid for a pool your size, even with a SWG. I suspect that you might have some water balance issues! This thread might be helpful to you:
water-balance-tips-for-a-swg-t3663.html
 
I am still new to the pool thing, but we are having a VERY windy spring- a mild day is 20mph. At least once a week, we are seeing 40-50 mph gusts. We have clay, not sand like you, but it is very alkaline. And it blows like sand when it gets dry. I have had constant pH rise all this spring, though not as severe as yours. We do not have SWG, and right now we are not adding chlorine (still finishing out the last of the polyquat prevention cycle). I can go out and watch the pool slosh in the wind like it is full of wild kids, and see the black clay dust everywhere. I am guessing that is the main source of my pH rise. My TA is down to 70 and I have started adding borates (about 30ppm right now), but not much I can do about the wind and blowing dust. Also, the wind is evaporating water out at levels similar to summer, so I am having to add water weekly-also alkaline.
Just my experience in a windy, alkaline environment.
 
meatloaf said:
My pool seems to require about 10oz of 31.5% MA every other day. I
Click to expand...

meatloaf said:
I dropped the TA to 70PPM and I'm still using 4.5 oz of MA every day. I guess I"ll just have to live with it. :(
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem to be much a a change.
Where do you normally keep your pH and how high do you let it go before you add acid? The lower you put the pH the faster it will rise and the more acid you will need. For example, using the Pool Calculator, for a 10k pool with a TA of 60 ppm it takes 4.5 oz of acid to lower the pH from 7.7 to 7.5 but only 3.8 oz to lower it from 7.8 to 7.6 and the rise back up to 7.8 won't be as fast. In either case, with a low TA I would think it would take more than 1 day for your pH to rise that much and your first post indicates that.

I suggested dropping your TA to 60 ppm if you reread my earlier post, btw. Your waterfall is part of the problem and keeping your TA low is part of the solution.
 

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