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Thread: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

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    Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    We finally had water on Friday and I am starting my TFP journey here.
    I had indicated to my PB that I will be maintaining the pool chemistry and they were OK with it.

    The startup guy was scheduled to come by on Friday morning and they gave me a 4-hour window. I was getting ready in the morning and noticed some movement in the backyard... the guy was here an hour earlier than the slot!

    Problem 1 - CYA
    Ran outside and by the time, he had dumped 4 buckets of EZ-Chlor - totaling 16 lb!


    Pool math says I need around 11.5 to 12 lbs of this stuff! So, my CYA is now probably around 110!
    Frustratingly, I asked him why he did it.. he just said 'everything is normal - trust me'... (BTW - he also gave me his 'card' to sign up for weekly maintenance! Riiiight!)

    Problem 2 - Salt Cell
    He also had hooked up the salt cell to only feed the in-floor ... not all the returns in the pool. I had earlier asked the PB to make sure the salt cell feeds ALL returns to the pool and not just the in-floor!
    I am going to be asking the PB to re-do the salt cell install.

    The guy also dumped salt (thankfully, a measured amount that I suggested to bring salt to 3800 ppm) and ran the pump for 3-4 hours, while he was doing other stuff - programing the unit, installing the Stenner pump for acid, etc.

    Problem 3 - Salt Cell Started
    It got quite late by the time he had done his stuff - he is coming back on Monday to finish up - and just before leaving, I noticed the salt cell hooked up to the control panel. Found out that he had already turned on power to the salt cell and it is generating Cl!
    Is this OK? I had everything written down for the guy and specifically asked not to turn on the salt cell...I was going to add a measured quantity of bleach after he left!

    I thought I can turn off the salt cell after he left, but realized he had password protected the control panel! I cannot control pump run times or tweak the cell percentage.

    Pump runs for about 10 hours every day at full speed - that is what it is programmed currently till he comes by on Monday to tweak it.

    Here are my values:

    Input water (from the street)
    FC - 0
    CC - 0
    TC - 0

    pH - 8.2
    TA - 170
    CH - 200
    CYA - 0

    Startup Night (8 PM)
    FC - 1
    CC - 0
    TC - 1

    pH - 7.2
    TA - 130
    CH - ?
    CYA - 100+ (dot disappeared after a few drops!)

    This morning (6 AM)
    FC - 10.5
    CC - 0.5
    TC - 11

    pH - 7.5
    TA - 160
    CH - 125 (lowered now??)
    CYA - 100+ (dot disappeared after a few drops!)

    Note: Acid pump is not yet hooked up. So, pH, TA, etc will be stable later this week.
    I am guessing I have to lower CYA later - will check after a week -
    2015 build (link)| 16.5 K gal | Salt Water | IG rect | 35'x16' | 568 sf | 105 ft peri | depth 3'-5' | PV3 in-floor | 2 Venturi skimmers | MDX+SDX drains | T-CELL-15 SWG | Hayward Ecostar VS pump | Hayward 7220 DE Filter | Aqua Cal Icebreaker Heat / Cool pump SQ166 | Hayward Sense & Dispense PH Controller| Omnilogic | Pebble Sheen Blue Surf | Ultra UV | Stenner acid pump | Coverstar Automatic | TF-100

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    Agent99's Avatar
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    I thought I had always read that for a new plaster finish (Your Pebble Sheen...mine is 45 days news), that you don't want to add salt until like 28 days in.

    Check it here: Pool School - Start-up New Plaster

    That is unfortunate about the CYA disaster right from the get-go...sigh. Do a diluted sample if you really want to see what you have (half fill water to dilute your pool water).
    ----Chris----
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Yup, I did go through this thoroughly, but my PB insists that this is what they do for all pools here in AZ - they have over 25000 pools to their credit - majority of them salt water ones.
    Says it is fine!

    Will do a dilute sample test for CYA later tonight - Doesn't the CYA need a week or so to show accurate result?
    2015 build (link)| 16.5 K gal | Salt Water | IG rect | 35'x16' | 568 sf | 105 ft peri | depth 3'-5' | PV3 in-floor | 2 Venturi skimmers | MDX+SDX drains | T-CELL-15 SWG | Hayward Ecostar VS pump | Hayward 7220 DE Filter | Aqua Cal Icebreaker Heat / Cool pump SQ166 | Hayward Sense & Dispense PH Controller| Omnilogic | Pebble Sheen Blue Surf | Ultra UV | Stenner acid pump | Coverstar Automatic | TF-100

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    My PB added salt the day after fill. Liquid CYA shows up almost immediately. Granular takes several days to a week depending on how fast it dissolves. We only caution waiting a week to make sure that CYA isn't overdosed.

    You are off to a great start and you are doing the right stuff. Your pool is going to be great.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    In my opinion if you don't have the password you don't own it, so tell the PB to either unlock it, give you the password of give you your money back. Also get them to pay for a water replacement to get your CYA down since it was their guy that screwed things up.

    Ike

    p.s. you say he dumped the CYA in, is it in the filter or in the pool, CYA takes some time to dissolve if it is in the filter and if you act fast you might be able to change the DE and limit your CYA rise, but given this was day before yesterday it may be too late now.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    All righty then! Excellent. If that is what they do, then who am I to question.

    But 25,000 pools? If they've been in business for 50 years, that is 500 pools a year or 4 pools completed every 3 days. Sounds kinda high LOL

    I couldn't tell from your pic if that stabilzer is liquid or granular but then I realized you said 'buckets' and so it was probably a solid.

    Well, with SWG, as you know, you want your CYA in the 60-70 range anyway.

    Congrats on the new pool...bet you can't wait to dive in! I know the feeling. My pool was offline for half the summer as it got worked on!
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Thanks, all.
    Just did a diluted CYA test (diluted pool water with 50% water from RO filter in kitchen).. here is what I have tonight.

    FC - 10
    CC - 0
    TC - 10

    pH - 7.5
    TA - 160
    CH - (not done)
    CYA - 140 (did with diluted test)

    So, the startup dude messed up my CYA levels Have to fight the PB to correct this with drain / refill -
    I am guessing they need to drain at least 1/3 and refill to bring CYA to 80.
    Argh!

    OR...

    Should I just go with the chart that @chemgeek put out - i.e.
    Keep CYA at 140, but maintain FC at 4.5% of CYA level - in my case keep FC around 6.3 (
    4.5% * 140)?

    That way, I don't have to partial drain/refill! Thoughts?
    2015 build (link)| 16.5 K gal | Salt Water | IG rect | 35'x16' | 568 sf | 105 ft peri | depth 3'-5' | PV3 in-floor | 2 Venturi skimmers | MDX+SDX drains | T-CELL-15 SWG | Hayward Ecostar VS pump | Hayward 7220 DE Filter | Aqua Cal Icebreaker Heat / Cool pump SQ166 | Hayward Sense & Dispense PH Controller| Omnilogic | Pebble Sheen Blue Surf | Ultra UV | Stenner acid pump | Coverstar Automatic | TF-100

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    The problem of keeping and trying to maintain a pool with a cya of 140 is *if* at any time you blink and algae takes hold, you've got a huge (HUGE!) chlorine need to control it. Gallons and gallons of liquid chlorine more than you really want to pay for or haul in.
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    2 things, CYA can take a week to fully register on the test so it can be even higher than you tested. Second thing we generally feel that any CYA over 100 ppm is not reliably maintainable, and at 140 you are looking at all sorts of trouble since your minimum FC would be over 10 ppm, and at over 10 ppm FC the pH test becomes unreliable (skews readings high) so you would not be able to maintain correct pH on your new start up plaster unless you invest in an expensive digital pH meter that requires frequent calibration with calibration fluid to be accurate.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Various folks have posted about 'mysterious' disappearances of CYA from their pools and no one is quite sure what is going on. However, you probably won't be so lucky to measure your CYA in a week or two and suddenly find it down. I think you do have a bone to pick with your PB. I wonder if they know anything about appropriate CYA levels?
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    I would tell your PB to do a 50% water change asap. that's unacceptable.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaninFLA View Post
    I would tell your PB to do a 50% water change asap. that's unacceptable.
    Just talked to the PB. He agrees that the startup guy screwed up and they will do a partial drain/refill. I calculated via Pool Math that approx 8000 gal needs to be replaced.
    Will update this forum when this is underway...
    2015 build (link)| 16.5 K gal | Salt Water | IG rect | 35'x16' | 568 sf | 105 ft peri | depth 3'-5' | PV3 in-floor | 2 Venturi skimmers | MDX+SDX drains | T-CELL-15 SWG | Hayward Ecostar VS pump | Hayward 7220 DE Filter | Aqua Cal Icebreaker Heat / Cool pump SQ166 | Hayward Sense & Dispense PH Controller| Omnilogic | Pebble Sheen Blue Surf | Ultra UV | Stenner acid pump | Coverstar Automatic | TF-100

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Good job by you and your builder for following through with you. I doubt my builder would even blink - would have just told me they know better. Luckily my guy only added 4lbs at startup and told me to add more once we stared the salt system - but only if I wanted it higher, as his training told him to keep it below 50 per WetEdge.
    2015 Build Link: 15'x30' Rectangle (3'-6", 5', 4' depth) 14,000 Gallon Pool, Finish: Wet Edge Primera Stone Black Kona. TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin DX5+S Robot, Jandy CL460 Filter, VS 2HP pump, AquaPure 1400 SWG, iAqualink2, Automatic Safety Cover. No Heater

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    As predicted, a tech from the third party company that my PB contracts with (for startups, etc) came by today with this...


    Told him categorically that I will settle for nothing less than a 50% drain/refill and sent him back.
    2015 build (link)| 16.5 K gal | Salt Water | IG rect | 35'x16' | 568 sf | 105 ft peri | depth 3'-5' | PV3 in-floor | 2 Venturi skimmers | MDX+SDX drains | T-CELL-15 SWG | Hayward Ecostar VS pump | Hayward 7220 DE Filter | Aqua Cal Icebreaker Heat / Cool pump SQ166 | Hayward Sense & Dispense PH Controller| Omnilogic | Pebble Sheen Blue Surf | Ultra UV | Stenner acid pump | Coverstar Automatic | TF-100

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Quote Originally Posted by trbvm View Post
    As predicted, a tech from the third party company that my PB contracts with (for startups, etc) came by today with this...


    Told him categorically that I will settle for nothing less than a 50% drain/refill and sent him back.
    Smart play. Glad you're being assertive. As you may have seen, there are several threads here detailing the effectiveness of Bio-Active and most report minimal reductions in CYA levels. If it were free, I might give it a shot but that means dropping FC levels down as directed by the product and risking algae developing with only a small chance of meaningful CYA reduction.
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Quote Originally Posted by trbvm View Post
    As predicted, a tech from the third party company that my PB contracts with (for startups, etc) came by today with this...


    Told him categorically that I will settle for nothing less than a 50% drain/refill and sent him back.

    Isn't it an amazing feeling having the knowledge to do that?! Empowering!
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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    We had our pool startup today as well, fortunately our PB, not contractor, was on hand and set our cya at 30. I hope things go smooth for you.
    11k gal., IG, Pebble, Hayward 425 Cartridge, Hayward Eco-star Variable speed pump, 3-5-4, Startup 9/1/15, In-floor cleaning system, City Water, Aerator, Full sun, and of course ambition!

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Did you ever get the password thing corrected? If not I bet there is a backdoor. Most products that have passwords, have them, "just in case".
    All I would need is the exact model of SWG to try to find it. If you need it I mean...
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    Did you ever get the password thing corrected? If not I bet there is a backdoor. Most products that have passwords, have them, "just in case".
    All I would need is the exact model of SWG to try to find it. If you need it I mean...
    Ah. Yes. He did give me the password and now I can control everything from the app on my iPhone.


    2015 build (link)| 16.5 K gal | Salt Water | IG rect | 35'x16' | 568 sf | 105 ft peri | depth 3'-5' | PV3 in-floor | 2 Venturi skimmers | MDX+SDX drains | T-CELL-15 SWG | Hayward Ecostar VS pump | Hayward 7220 DE Filter | Aqua Cal Icebreaker Heat / Cool pump SQ166 | Hayward Sense & Dispense PH Controller| Omnilogic | Pebble Sheen Blue Surf | Ultra UV | Stenner acid pump | Coverstar Automatic | TF-100

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    Re: Graduating from the 'Build' forum - Starting my TFP saga!

    Well that's good then!
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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