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Thread: First start up, bromine off chart

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    South County, Rhode Island
    Posts
    28

    First start up, bromine off chart

    Good Morning, everyone. I am perplexed. I have followed everything to the T. I decontaminated the new Bullfrog after bringing it to proper heat, balancing and bromine levels. All went well.

    I filled it up again, heated, balanced and added bromide and bleach last night. This morning, after the filter cycle, the temp was perfect, PH at 8, CH 140, TA 100 but the bromine was unmeasurable. I could not get the sample to turn pink at all. I pulled out old bromine test strips and it said very high bromine. How can I get the bromine down to a measurable level? Brandy new tub and I wanna get in!!! Thank you very much.

    I should mention that the amount of Bromide I added was 3/4 ounce plus 1/8 ounce. Bleach of 5.3% was 4 ounces. The only other chemicals in there is Metal Gon and Defender.

    Ok. I have done some perusing and have decided to drain some water out and add fresh back in. Do you think by doing this I have compromised the viability of the protective additives such as the Metal Gon and Defender to a unsavory degree? I would also like to look in the crystal ball to see where I went wrong here. I do now realize I violated the rule of "add less, you can always add more". And the filtration (pump) time was very minimal. After heating, I only have it filtering for 15 minutes at 11PM and 15 minutes at 7AM. Could the water not be mixed adequately yet? Oooh, maybe I should aerate for a while before changing the water???? ..any additional advice is appreciated!
    2015 Bullfrog 131 180 gal Spa Indoor, TFP bromine fed, Taylor K-2106
    2012 2500 gal. Round vinyl AG Pool, Hayward Easy Clear Filter System, chlorine
    1994 Rubbermaid 175 gal horse tub, still looking for advice on algae problem.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: First start up, bromine off chart

    When you say "I could not get the sample to turn pink at all", are you using a Taylor test kit with a FAS-DPD test where you add powder and you say you didn't even see a flash of pink and add more powder to have it stay pink? Or do you have a DPD test where you add drops and the water did not turn pink/red?

    The amount of bromide is fine since they recommend 0.5 ounces per 100 gallons which for 180 gallons would be 0.9 ounces. This part does not have to be exact. 4 ounces of 5.25% bleach would raise the Total Bromine to 20.9 ppm (equivalent to 9.3 ppm FC) which is high but normally would not bleach out the DPD dye. Why do you think your bleach is 5.3%? Is that what it says on the bottle? Until a few years ago, most regular bleach was 6.0% but now most are 8.25%. If your bleach were really 8.25% then that would have been 33.8 ppm total bromine (equivalent to 15.0 ppm FC) and that could have bleached out the DPD dye.

    If you keep the spa uncovered the bromine should outgas somewhat. I assume you have no ozonator. If you did, then it would make more bromine from your bromide bank. And yes, if you didn't have the pump running when you added the chemical, it's also possible you measured a locally even higher level of bromine that had not yet mixed.

    As for the Metal Gon and Defender products, they likely have maintenance doses you could add after the bromine level comes down to normal, but you don't need those products unless you have high metal content in your fill water and high CH.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    South County, Rhode Island
    Posts
    28

    Re: First start up, bromine off chart

    Yes. I am using the Taylor K2106 as instructed with the powder. Did not see flash of pink. I added 12 spoonfuls of the powder, got no reaction and gave up on it.

    Yes, the bleach bottle states 5.3%. No, I do not have an ozonator. I always have the pump running when I add chemicals. I am very hesitant to keep the spa uncovered as it is in my bathroom and I do not want to have any moisture issues. This will be my 8th year of a hot tub in the house and no issues yet!!

    Tap water is CH 30. I had my water tested by two different entities and metals did not show as being high. But, the staining in the toilets and the frequency with which we replace water heaters out here scares me. I fear scale and metals, but I don't know if I am being paranoid because I have no numbers to back up my fears. I replaced 50% of the water and she is heating now.

    I am going to retest the water when warmed to 90. I assume that is an ok temp to test? I will add the .9 ozs of Bromide, let it mix for 5 minutes, then add 2 ounces of 5.3% bleach, let mix for 5 minutes and take a reading.

    I greatly appreciate your feedback, Chem Geek, and if my plans are off, let me know!
    2015 Bullfrog 131 180 gal Spa Indoor, TFP bromine fed, Taylor K-2106
    2012 2500 gal. Round vinyl AG Pool, Hayward Easy Clear Filter System, chlorine
    1994 Rubbermaid 175 gal horse tub, still looking for advice on algae problem.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: First start up, bromine off chart

    Yes that temp should be fine for testing. I'm concerned, however, that you didn't even see a flash of pink with the DPD nor get any pink/red adding more powder but that the test strips showed high bromine and that based on what you added for bleach it wasn't so high to cause the DPD to not register. So let us know what happens when you try again with less chlorine added. Maybe the DPD powder went bad. See the Taylor link on Recognizing a Compromised Reagent.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    South County, Rhode Island
    Posts
    28

    Re: First start up, bromine off chart

    Chem Geek, thank you so much for the link. I will keep it on file. I balanced the water and then added .9 oz of bromide and 2 ounces of the 5.3% bleach. The results were a 5ppm of bromine and I promptly enjoyed the inaugural soak. Upon exiting, I installed the Pentair floaty with 4 bromine tablets, cracked open about 1/8th inch. I will adjust the filtering schedule to run every 12 hours tomorrow. I purposely did not add any bleach after the soak because I want to see what the reading is in the morning with the floaty doing its thing.

    Do you have an opinion regarding filtering duration? This is a 2hp pump pushing 180 gallons of water through 17 jets. I cannot imagine the complete turnover time to be more than one hour at the most. Time to heat is generally not an issue, as the room is pretty constant between 78-80 degrees 24/7/365.
    2015 Bullfrog 131 180 gal Spa Indoor, TFP bromine fed, Taylor K-2106
    2012 2500 gal. Round vinyl AG Pool, Hayward Easy Clear Filter System, chlorine
    1994 Rubbermaid 175 gal horse tub, still looking for advice on algae problem.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: First start up, bromine off chart

    Spa turnover times are very short, typically measured in minutes, not hours. If your 2 HP is truly putting out 180 GPM, then you would have a 1 minute turnover rate. The regular circulation pump rate is not that fast, but even at 20 GPM it would only take only 9 minutes for one turnover in a 180 gallon spa.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    South County, Rhode Island
    Posts
    28

    Re: First start up, bromine off chart

    With that information, Chem Geek, I shall adjust my filtration schedule to be every 12 hours and let it run for 30 minutes to be on the safe side. I cannot fathom letting the pump run for hours as I often read here. I would think that a few turnovers would be more than adequate to filter and dissolve chemicals. Electricity here in RI is extremely expensive as we are not allowed to have off-peak hours where the rate drops.

    As the weather changes, I will change temps and see if the short heating times will suffice. I just checked the spa before the pump came on and the results are:

    Bromine 0
    PH 8
    TA 100
    CH 100

    I added 3/4 ounce of bleach, half a teaspoon of alk up and 3/4 T of ph down. I only added the alk up because the ph down bottle said it wanted the TA at 125.

    I did not monkey with the floaty as I read that it needs 24 hours to settle in. Thanks again and I appreciate your input.

    Update: My husband and I used the tub for 35 mins last night. I added 3 ounces of 5.3% bleach and opened the floaty to 1/4 inch.
    This morning, the BR was barely 2.25. I added 2.25 ounces of 8.25 bleach and will retest shortly. Thanks to Chem Geek and all, I think I am getting the hang of the proper procedures. I just have to get over the fear of over sanitizing and being unable to use the tub.
    2015 Bullfrog 131 180 gal Spa Indoor, TFP bromine fed, Taylor K-2106
    2012 2500 gal. Round vinyl AG Pool, Hayward Easy Clear Filter System, chlorine
    1994 Rubbermaid 175 gal horse tub, still looking for advice on algae problem.

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