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Thread: 5 Week old replaster with River Rok, weird phosphate numbers, advice?

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    5 Week old replaster with River Rok, weird phosphate numbers, advice?

    I have a roughly 20K inground River Rok pool. 60 sq ft DE, 2hp pump, big dinosaur of a heater.

    My water cleared fast after plastering. Alkalinity came down in a weeks time, I let it drift down on its own then the last day before a pool party brought it down to 120 with a short course of acid/aeration.
    Spa spill over is only type of daily aeration, but way it was done its more of a trickle when regular valve settings, when I turn more flow to spa, then it spills over alot. My returns are pointed mostly level, 2 on opposite ends I pointed a little towards surface to create slight ripples around steps.

    My numbers now:

    FC 4
    CC 0
    CH 280
    PH (varies from 7.4-7.8, higher by end of day, adding acid at night)
    TA (90-100)
    CYA 35

    no metals
    Phosphates 1500

    My question is should I do something about the phosphates? The last week or so I have added more chlorine than I usually have to keep my FC level stable. A few weeks back it seemed like I didn't add any for a week at a time. Was that stable.
    Water is clear, crystal clear and sparkly.
    Feels great, soft almost.

    But brushing the other day I found a one inch green spot on some grout on the rock wall in pool. Could not find it anywhere else. 10 days ago we had a big bday party and tons of kids in pool. After they left I dumped 2 gallons of bleach in pool, since I use the BB method right now. Will add borates later.

    Weird thing is, my phosphates were near zero when I filled pool. Zero for the first 3 days of pool, then suddenly were 1500, then 1000, then 1500, then 1000. Not just at Leslies, I ordered a kit thinking they are just screwing me over.

    I have no idea where it's coming from? Yea I could have gotten some from the kids, but it was high before that party. NO runoff at all in our pool. COncrete deck all around, sloped right, away from pool. I cut down a huge tree over pool, so less organic than ever before.

    The same time I noticed the green strip, I noticed that day my FC dropped faster than usual, which means it was killing alot of something...which killing bad things can result in testing positive for phosphates as well. Right?

    My old plaster and the pool could not get rid of green algae. One of reasons I redid it. Just never could do it. I brushed nonstop, dumped tons of bleach, jacked with PH and TA levels to different settings, my cya was never super high, tried algaecides, etc. I DO NOT WANT THAT AGAIN.

    I hear horror stories on using Phos free, or any Phos remover. Then I hear tons of good stories of dropping from 1500 to 300 in 2 days. I hear dont worry about them if all else is balanced, but my old pool all was balanced and never got rid of algae. I also hear yes mess with them if as high as 1500, then I read a pool guy who says his pool has 3000ppm and crystal clear. SO....?

    My CH will keep climbing a little more since I just had the pool done. I know my PH will not bounce up as much as time goes on because the plaster will cure slower and slower. I know I have just enough CYA to keep chlorine around, but not enough to need astronomical chlorine to shock.

    What I don't know is should I really worry about the phosphates? I'm actually worried and concerned because I found green in a 5 week old pool that I have been checking water chemistry twice a day since birth, and I brush it twice a day. (per SGM, the more you brush it the more exposure the pebbles and beauty and it is gorgeous)

    and on another note..are there any pucks out there that don't have a ton of junk in them?
    20K gallon chlorine pool/spa,RiverRok Lucayan Blue, Aztec Cobalt tile, Sea Shell Spray deck, real Flagstone coping-main deck, moss rock wall, Aquabot cleaner. Penair FLS 60 DE filter, Pentair Superflo 2HP pump, Jandy 200btu gas heater, and currently a WHOLE LOT OF BRUSHING GOING ON!

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    Re: 5 Week old replaster with River Rok, weird phosphate numbers, advice?

    I wouldn't worry about the phosphates. If you have algae, then the FC is going too low at some point. Slam if necessary, and then maintain the FC at 15 % of the CYA for a week and then at an absolute minimum of 7.5 % thereafter.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    5 Week old replaster with River Rok, weird phosphate numbers, advice?

    Who started up your pool water after re plaster? What was added to the water at plaster startup?

    Some startups call for adding sequestrant to a fresh fill. Some sequestrant said are based on HEDP (etidronic acid) which is a bisphosphonate that's used as a scale & corrosion inhibitor. That could be a possible source of your phosphates.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: 5 Week old replaster with River Rok, weird phosphate numbers, advice?

    I started the pool up myself. Everyone at stores said "you have to add Jacks Purple" or Jacks this or metal this or that...but my water tested clean for no metals. SO I always go by why add stuff to remove stuff you don't have? So on start up I added nothing the first night. They exposed the surface the way SGM stated in the warranty book by power washing after a drying/hardening phase before filling. I know there were 2 or 3 levels of floating, skimming cream, leaving cream, then last was the power wash. Anyways, it didn't need a high acid start, so I started with a fresh clean filter and just kept brushing every 6 hours to keep dust moving and filtering what the surface didn't absorb. Next day I started adding acid a little to keep ph around 7.6. I was kinda taking the BiCarb start up /be patient approach and letting TA settle down some on its own which it did over the first week. But each day I kept the ph in check to 7.6 and of course kept brushing. Backwashed after 24 hours the first time, next time was in 72 hours. On 3rd day I added some chlorine and 4th day added stablizer, I used the liquid kind.

    But I have my test results from pool store and my own, I have the nice test kit. And NO phosphates on fill up, or the first few days. They never showed up until after adding stablizer. Which has always had me wondering because the natural chemistry liquid stabilizer says not to test for phosphates or add phos free for 24 or 48 hours after using the stabilizer. So been wondering if something in the additives that skews results. Dont know, grasping at answers.

    I know you can't be 100% without them, kinda impossible with stuff falling in, people jumping in. But I have babied this pool. I do not wish to do this again for long time, ever if I can.

    But no, no Jacks stuff or any phos remover has EVER been added, or anything with a phosphate derivative name in it, or anything that can be broken down and turned into on. Just like I use bleach so I know its just chlorine that is going in and not stablilizer, clarifier, talc, etc.
    20K gallon chlorine pool/spa,RiverRok Lucayan Blue, Aztec Cobalt tile, Sea Shell Spray deck, real Flagstone coping-main deck, moss rock wall, Aquabot cleaner. Penair FLS 60 DE filter, Pentair Superflo 2HP pump, Jandy 200btu gas heater, and currently a WHOLE LOT OF BRUSHING GOING ON!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    5 Week old replaster with River Rok, weird phosphate numbers, advice?

    Hmmm. Very odd.

    Just for your info, the point of the sequestrant is 2-fold. Even if you have low metals in the water (your water is metal free? That's nice), the pH near the plaster surface can be insanely high due to the calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide in the plaster. Because of that, even metal levels that are considered ok, can cause staining because of the local pH at the water/plaster interface. And, secondarily, many of the sequestrants will also bind up calcium and help prevent calcium scale from developing. So there is good reason to add a sequestrant at startup.

    However, it sounds like you have excellent fill water so that's a big help.

    As for phosphates, oh well, it's not really an issue as long as you maintain the proper FC/CYA ratio.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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