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Thread: Cartridge filter sealed shut

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    Cartridge filter sealed shut

    We recently bought a new house with a pool in the backyard and I have done pretty well learning how to use the pump system and have been able to keep the pool in shape. The pressure however has been slowly creeping up and I have cleaned everything out trying to get it to lower but nothing has worked. Well time to clean the filter! It is a cartridge filter and should be pretty simple to clean but strangely enough it seems to be sealed shut! I have some pictures attached but the black lock ring twists off easily and I'll try to get a picture without it on but underneath the lock ring it is greasy and neither me nor my husband can get the lid off. I feel like we would be ripping out the pipes before we could get the lid to come apart. Has anybody ever seen this? I might just be overlooking something obvious.

    IMG_00422.jpgIMG_00455.jpg
    And yes they had the system is in a little run down shed and needs to be cleaned up The front equipment just looks like an old system and is not in use. The pool is an in-ground concrete pool, about 15,000 gallons. Not sure if any other info is needed. I am sure I'll just end having a pool guy come look at it but thought I would see if anyone has had trouble with this before I do.

    The lid should come off right? I have no idea how the past owners would have cleaned it...if they ever have. And maybe it has just been that long since they have cleaned it. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. We could try breaking the seal (almost like its glued shut with grease) with a razor blade or something but I do not want to ruin anything. Thank you!
    15,000 gallon inground concrete pool. More info to come!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Cartridge filter sealed shut

    My front up approach would be patience and some gentle tapping around the perimeter of the seal (where the locking clamp is) using a soft but heavy rubber mallet.

    A second and less desirable approach is to loosen the locking clamp but not fully remove the locking clamp and turn on the pump briefly and turn it off again (if it's a 2-speed, use the low speed). The slight pressure build up will usually pop the lid off. It is messy though and will spill water all over the place.

    I'm curious, does the filter have a drain plug on the bottom and an air release valve on the top? Did you open up both before trying to remove the lid manually?



    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    The lid does come off. I know with mine I have to release the pressure (suction) before it will pop off. Mine has a piece under the pressure gauge that I turn to release the air. That's a little confusing...

    When the pump is running, I use that release to remove air from the filter housing. When the pump is off, and I want to clean the filter, I use that same release to let air in. (That might make more sense.)
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    I think this is your filter, or close.
    http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/CleanandClearOM.pdf

    The grease is a lubricant and sealer. It sound like the base is not fastened down so you have to avoid damaging the pipes as you find a way to unscrew the locking clamp.

    I'd suggest you get someone to hold the bottom part - nitrile gloves greatly help your grip, BTW, open the release valve, and give it a go. You could try tapping the lock ring, but I don't know how sturdy it is.

    Maybe someone else has a better idea.
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Ring is loose according to 1st post. Probably just need to relieve water from filter. I did just that this weekend. Forgot to release the water from the filter and I was able to lift the whole darn thing up. Turned the little release and voila. Top bout fell off on my foot!
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    Ring is loose according to 1st post. Probably just need to relieve water from filter. I did just that this weekend. Forgot to release the water from the filter and I was able to lift the whole darn thing up. Turned the little release and voila. Top bout fell off on my foot!
    Similar to Pentair DE, you have to open the high flow air release or that lid is never coming off


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Also, once you get the cartridge clean and the filter all put back together, you'll use that release again to let the air out of the filter. Have to manually turn on pump and then once the water starts to flow into the filter you turn the release until water starts to come out of it. Then close it again.

    You don't HAVE to do that step but if you don't you'll get lots of bubbles from your returns and sometimes a bubble will get trapped in the filter. That makes the gauge act funny sometimes.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Well I am so glad I asked you guys!

    I'm curious, does the filter have a drain plug on the bottom and an air release valve on the top? Did you open up both before trying to remove the lid manually?
    I have been attempting to release the air with the valve on top but honestly I am not sure if I have done it with the pump on...that would make a lot more sense. I have never looked for any kind of a drain plug. Will the filter have both an air release valve and a drain plug? Or is it possible that it only has the valve.
    15,000 gallon inground concrete pool. More info to come!

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Quote Originally Posted by whitneymrichter View Post
    Well I am so glad I asked you guys!



    I have been attempting to releasing the air with the valve on top but honestly I am not sure if I have done it with the pump on...that would make a lot more sense. I have never looked for any kind of a drain plug. Will the filter have both an air release valve and a drain plug? Or is it possible that it only has the valve.
    I have a Pentair QuadDE filter which is a hybrid cartridge/DE filter. It has the drain plug in the bottom for cleaning/draining purposes. I'm not sure if the Clean-n-Clear line is similar. You should definitely have the air release at top to allow you to release air bubbles. That should work just fine for releasing any vacuum lock when opening the filter body.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    When you shut off the pool a vacuum forms in the filter container, so pool off, vacuum relief valve open - it should be the same as in the link I sent you - and hopefully the top will come off easily. You be able to hear the vacuum releasing.
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Yeah,
    open the drain plug in the bottom first our you'll get soaked when the top finally pops.
    It still might be stuck and you'll need to coax it along though.

    Its surprising how tight they can be stuck together.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Yeah,
    open the drain plug in the bottom first our you'll get soaked when the top finally pops.
    It still might be stuck and you'll need to coax it along though.

    Its surprising how tight they can be stuck together.


    That would lead me to suggest given the sealing o-ring a good inspection. Over time they can get very mushy and start to disintegrate. That can often lead to a tacky o-ring. If you pull the o-ring off and it leaves your hands or gloves black, it's time change it. Any pool store should stick standard pool filter o-rings like that.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Alright so here is an update.

    I opened the air valve which released maybe a second of air (no vacuum sound) and then took out the drain plug and let all the water drain. Unfortunately the lid still wont budge. And just to clear things up again the lock ring (black outer ring) does come off easily, the actual lid is just sealed shut with some kind of grease.

    IMG_0196 (1).JPGIMG_0198 (1).JPG

    I tried tapping it to get it to budge a little but it just doesn't want to move!
    15,000 gallon inground concrete pool. More info to come!

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    Cartridge filter sealed shut

    You could try to burp-pop it off as I described in the first response I posted but you need to be careful. Only a quick burst of pump on time to try to put 1-2psi pressure in the vessel. Given the surface area, that much pressure should easily generate enough to force to pop the lid. But you do have to be SUPER CAREFUL!!!

    It looks like the o-ring turned to mush and created a seal. It's going to take some work to clean it all off but I would definitely expect to buy a new o-ring.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Excellent point!

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post


    That would lead me to suggest given the sealing o-ring a good inspection. Over time they can get very mushy and start to disintegrate. That can often lead to a tacky o-ring. If you pull the o-ring off and it leaves your hands or gloves black, it's time change it. Any pool store should stick standard pool filter o-rings like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    You could try to burp-pop it off as I described in the first response I posted but you need to be careful. Only a quick burst of pump on time to try to put 1-2psi pressure in the vessel. Given the surface area, that much pressure should easily generate enough to force to pop the lid. But you do have to be SUPER CAREFUL!!!
    I do plan on trying this but I wouldn't want to do it until I have a new O-ring correct? Other wise I wont be able to seal it again and run the filter. I didn't even think about the fact that there should have been an o-ring there and I assume that the filter has not been cleaned in a very long time as it does look like that "grease" is the O-ring turned to mush.
    15,000 gallon inground concrete pool. More info to come!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Quote Originally Posted by whitneymrichter View Post
    I do plan on trying this but I wouldn't want to do it until I have a new O-ring correct? Other wise I wont be able to seal it again and run the filter. I didn't even think about the fact that there should have been an o-ring there and I assume that the filter has not been cleaned in a very long time as it does look like that "grease" is the O-ring turned to mush.
    Yup, you're going to need a new o-ring. It would not surprise me in the least if the previous owner used the wrong kind of lube on the o-ring. You can't use petroleum based lubricants like Vaseline. O-rings should only be lubed with silicone based grease. Some folks like Teflon added to the silicone but I find it unnecessary. I use Boss 820 silicone based o-ring lube. A 3oz tube costs about $11 and will last you forever. And remember, the proper way to lube an o-ring is not thick gobs, it's a thin film on the rubber surface.

    You're also going to want to clean out the track that the old o-ring sat in. Remove as much as you can mechanically and then clean out any remaining gunk with isopropyl alcohol on a clean rag. Should do just fine.




    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    Take the info on your filter to the local pool store and order yourself up ALL the o-rings and such that might be on your filter and replace them all. You may even want a new cartridge. Freshen it all up new and you'll have a good start.
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

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    I have the same filter and it gets difficult to pop off when the o-ring needs lubrication. Open the release valve and wait for the hissing of the pressure to subside. Grab one of the handles on the lid - either the one by the pressure gauge or the one by the release valve (whichever one affords you the best angle). Place a foot on the pvc pipe at the bottom below the handle you are going to be pulling on. Don't stand on it just place a foot on it with enough pressure to keep the filter from lifting of the ground. Then give it a good jerk upwards. Just jerk up on one side. Mine some times take 2 or 3 good yanks. The key is to keep the bottom of the filter from lifting with the lid and ripping up all your PVC.

    Lubricate the o-ring with silicone lubricant and it will not only go back on much easier but will come off next time much more smoothly


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    I have the same type of filter and the lid can be difficult to remove when the o-ring is not lubricated properly.

    Open the relief valve and let all the pressure out of the filter. Then grab one of the two handles at the top of the lid (whichever one affords you the best angle). Place your foot on the pvc at the bottom of the filter beneath the handle that you are going to use. You want to just enough weight to keep the filter on the ground - don't stand on it or you'll crack the pvc. Then yank up on the handle. It should come off after a couple of good yanks. Don't try to lift the lid straight up with both handles - it comes off easier when it's pried up on one side at a slight angle.

    Then clean all that grease off of it and lubricate the o-ring (if it's still usable) with a silicone lubricant. It will go back on and come off next time much more easily.
    -- Ray

    15k gal IG Grecian diamond brite/plaster; built 1979; pentair clean n clear cc100 filter; 1hp water ace pump; 1 skimmer, main drain, 5 returns; Polaris 380 pool sweep w/booster; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Cartridge filter sealed shut

    One more thought - if you decide to replace the cartridge you need to know which clean and clear model it is. The side label doesn't appear to be marked. The circle under the column is usually punched out below the CC50, CC75, etc.

    But if you look at the top label underneath the pressure relief valve there is a 6 digit number beginning with 16031x. Based on the lid it's a CC75, 150, or 200. I'm betting it's the 150 or 200, the CC75 is squatter and would probably be too small to effectively filter your pool.

    The picture in your second set is too blurry to be 100% positive but it appears to be 160318 which is the CC200.

    160317 is the CC150. Same o-ring in all 5 filter models but different filter cartridges (filter numbers are listed on side label).
    -- Ray

    15k gal IG Grecian diamond brite/plaster; built 1979; pentair clean n clear cc100 filter; 1hp water ace pump; 1 skimmer, main drain, 5 returns; Polaris 380 pool sweep w/booster; TF-100 test kit

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