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Thread: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

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    Household6's Avatar
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    Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Our saga continues.

    I'll be posting some test results later, but I have a pressing question.

    Our former pool caretakers (last 6 years) usually spent no more than 20 minutes at our pool. It always looked great! I take it this is the average time most pool companies spend at a pool so that they can turn a profit.

    So why is it that our new pool caretaker (former ones retired) is having to spend a minimum of 3-4 hours per week vacuuming our pool?

    He says the testing and side brushing takes very little time. It's the vacuuming that's time intensive.

    He goes on Wed's and scrubs the sides. Returns on Thurs's (so as to let whatever has been scrubbed off to settle to the bottom) and vacuums, and vacuums and vacuums and . . .

    This further makes zero sense to me as I don't know that I saw the former pool co more than a couple times a year with a vacuum in the pool. They seemed to have usually done everything with a net and brush. Perhaps they did things via the TFP method, but I sorta doubt it.

    We have a grand total of 3 trees in the entire yard. The only one remotely close to the pool is on the other side of a 6.5' vinyl fence, is a ginormous magnolia, and the leaves of which are huge, and maybe 3 leaves per week would wind up in the pool - easy to get out. (There is some ivy and other crud coming over onto our side of the fence from the vacant neighbor's house, but that's always been there too.)

    I'm in the thick of converting our new pool guy over to "the dark side" of TFP (from 300 miles away) and will be posting the results from testing the last week or so.

    But what could be causing this issue? Could a foculant be needed to help any debree settle faster?

    I thought maybe the pump isn't working properly so the debree isn't making its way into the skimmer/baskets? They (and the returns) appeared to me to be working the same as previous years (laman's eyes) when we were there a few weeks ago, and pool guy believes they are too.

    Could the repairs we did this spring (cracks and repainting) have caused the water flow or pull to be worse? (One would think entirely the opposite.)

    What gives?
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    You said you are 300 miles away. Have you actually seen pictures of the Thursday morning debris requiring several hours of vacuuming? I'm not trying to assign nefarious thoughts to anyone, but could it be that nothing has changed except the pool guy you're using and his approach to pool care and or wallet maintenance?
    Central TX / 12K GAL / IG / SWG / DE filter / Pentair SVRS & 3 swim jet pumps / Spa bench and jets / Single body of water / No heater.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Are you paying this guy by the hour? The only thing I can think of is there may be a nascent algae bloom that is creating a lot of fine debris and instead of taking care of the algae he just vacuums it up. A nascent algae bloom can cover the floor of the pool with algae debris fairly quickly. Does this guy send you the test results? How often is he testing the pool?
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    Household6's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    I trust the pool guy infatically. INFACATICALLY.

    Yes, he does send me results since the new test kit arrived a bit over a week ago. He had his own 5-way kit. I ordered the K-2006 on sale Amazon.com.

    The original plan was for him to do things his way. Once the water was stable, he was going to convert to TFP. Well, it's been over a month and, while I am having to bend his arm back and we did have a misunderstanding about adding stabilizer, we are on our way. (In the beginning I had only read just enough in pool school to get me in trouble. Telling him nothing would be needed besides bleach. (DOH!) He took that as the gospel and once I brought up the CYA level and mentioned adding stabilizer, all I could do was be upset at myself.)

    I realize now that he too has done just enough reading and has not dug deep. He's of the mind that bleach will not hold and it will have to be added every.single.day. Which, for a while, is likely. But, if that's what the tenant has to do, so be it. Once tenant (and I and pool guy) get used to the way the pool reacts, it will be less often.

    I'm going to post the results in a bit, but I want to post them after using the calculator so as to educate myself and ask questions, rather than a "wudda I do now?" scenario.
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    poolnoob.ca's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    What does infatically mean?
    32,000L Fibreglass Leisure Pools IG 12.5'x23'x5' Pump: AstralPools BX1 1.0HP
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Members here can help on both aspects (what to do now and providing background to your understanding) with full test results, but can do little to help without that. Pictures would be helpful as well to see the Thursday morning issues that are consuming the time. Good to trust your pool guy emphatically, but if neither of you are full bore yet on learning TFP, it could be easy to make missteps that could be avoided with full test results.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by poolnoob.ca View Post
    What does infatically mean?
    Emphatically is I believe what was meant.
    Central TX / 12K GAL / IG / SWG / DE filter / Pentair SVRS & 3 swim jet pumps / Spa bench and jets / Single body of water / No heater.

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    Household6's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Quote Originally Posted by poolnoob.ca View Post
    What does infatically mean?
    That's what I get for not having auto-correct on.
    Yes, I meant emphatically.
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    This is a side point for now, but I would strongly suggest you consider getting an SWG for that pool to automate chlorination so the pool guy can check levels ones per week and fine tune from that as opposed to having the tenants do anything.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    in my rental i check pool once per week with swg
    i usually spend one hour
    empty skimmer, test and adjust as required and vacuum
    if there is nothing to vacuum, i brush on that visit
    i keep the fc 2ppm above normal range in case of parties or young children
    or (i dont want to think about it) lazy, drunk adults
    SWG inground peanut shaped eco-bright concrete pool
    50,000 litres 13,000 gallons
    Lincoln Salt Chlorinator, 25 gram cell Sand Filter with glass media
    Taylor K2006-C test kit, Taylor K-1766 salt test, Dolphin M500 pool cleaner
    are you taking care of your pool or is the poolshop taking care of you

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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Most recent results on 8/20 (so may want to skip to that date).
    Posting what I have for the month of August. I have specifics further back, but doubt that's relevant.

    8/6:
    CYA - 2
    Water in bad shape - green algae covered deep & shallow floors, walls, steps. Few spots hard to remove.
    Brushed and put 3 3" pucks into chlorinator @ 2.5.

    8/7: vacuumed.

    8/8: added pH decreaser

    8/12: brushed

    8/13: Testing with his kit:
    Chlorine: "negligible"
    pH: 8.2
    TA: 80
    CYA: 6
    FC: "low"
    CH: 225

    Added:
    5 lb stabilizer
    7lb ph-
    2 lb shock (cal-hypo 68%)
    3 pucks (chlorinator)
    Algaecide

    (I asked why not use dichlor or trichlor. Said calhypo has less effect on ph. Sodium based causes cumulative increase to ph.)

    Also decided to start using 35k gal for calculations. Prev thought was 38k gal (20x40, 9ft/3.5ft). He had been using 30k gal as that's what water meter recorded when filled after repairs in June.)

    8/14:
    CYA-30
    Storm last night/day
    Vacuumed

    8/19:
    Rain most of week.
    Heavy lightning this evening.
    Brushed pool
    Added clarifier to get debree to settle.
    Water was very clear and first sighing of "glint" looking for. Pleasantly surprised algae was very light and only in deep end.

    8/20- first testing with new kit (k-2006)
    CYA- 30
    pH- 8.1
    FC- 4 (pool store 2.4)
    CC- 0
    TA 94.6 (pool store 93)
    CH- 200 (pool store 201)

    Added
    5 lb pH decreaser
    3lb shock (calhypo)
    3-3" pucks (trichlor)
    5lb stabilizer (per my request to get CYA a bit higher)
    Confirmed filter is working well as backwash is very green

    Pool guy should be at pool tmrw. I'll be sure to ask for full test results again, and pics of debree.

    What directions should I pass on to him?
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Wait a week to retest CYA as it can take that long to show up on the test after being added to the pool,
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Household6's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Last test was on the 20th. Today being the 26th, how much of a variance could we be looking at?
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    Household6's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Anyone?
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    Household6's Avatar
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    Please help us rid of $600-$850/m pool service!

    In the process of converting our pool (and its servicer) to TFP. Of important note is that I am 300 miles from our pool. (Used to be our home, but now a rental property.)

    Received new kit (k-2006) on the 20th and results were as follows:

    CYA- 30
    pH- 8.1
    FC- 4 (pool store 2.4)
    CC- 0
    TA 94.6 (pool store 93)
    CH- 200 (pool store 201)

    Added
    5 lb pH decreaser
    3lb shock (calhypo)
    3-3" pucks (trichlor)
    5lb stabilizer (per my request to get CYA a bit higher)
    Confirmed filter is working well as backwash is very green.

    Pool guy has been going on Wed's to brush, then returns on Thurs's after all has settled to vacuum. He's having to spend spending INSANE amounts of time vacuuming.

    I'm stumped as prev caretaker (who retired last year) was at pool once per week, and rarely more than 15-20 minutes. I probably saw them (when we lived there) 1-2x's per year with a vacuum. Leaf net was usually sufficient to get whatever was on floor, top, and in between, out.

    Today's results (8/26)
    CYA- 33
    FC- .4
    CC- .2
    pH- 7.7
    TA- 80
    CH- 210

    Water is clear, but spots on floor. He says it's both algae and dirt. Collecting at edges where walls meet floor, in corners at shallow steps, generally on shallow and deep end floors, and especially where patches were done to floor.

    I don't mind paying him for daily visits of 15 minutes for a couple of weeks. Having monthly bills that equal our mortgage payments has to stop.

    Is it reasonable to believe we can get this under control with 2 weeks of daily visits for testing and adding chlorine, and then move on to an every other day scenario? How much time should we be shooting for it to take him to do a weekly scrub and vacuum?

    What's on the menu for this pools appetite tomorrow?
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    Re: Please help us rid of $600-$850/m pool service!

    It's best to keep your posts in one thread, BTW.

    Maybe you could put a call out for a TFP person in your area to maintain for you. Just a thought.

    You current pool care-person needs to use the 10ml sample for FC/CC and multiply by 0.5. You will save in reagents that way.

    As for tomorrow? Bleach! Your FC is way too low.

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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    It's best to keep your posts in one thread, BTW.

    Maybe you could put a call out for a TFP person in your area to maintain for you. Just a thought.

    You current pool care-person needs to use the 10ml sample for FC/CC and multiply by 0.5. You will save in reagents that way.

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    Household6's Avatar
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    Re: Why/how the pool techs could clean my pool in 15 minutes?!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    It's best to keep your posts in one thread, BTW.

    This thread didn't get a response, so thought maybe a new post would draw some attention.

    Maybe you could put a call out for a TFP person in your area to maintain for you. Just a thought.

    Per another thread, there are a known 2 people who have done such. I doubt one of them is in Fayetteville NC. not enough pools there.

    You current pool care-person needs to use the 10ml sample for FC/CC and multiply by 0.5. You will save in reagents that way.
    He is.

    Thanks for the time and input!
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Household6's Avatar
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    Re: Please help us rid of $600-$850/m pool service!

    Guys, I hate to be a pest, but I really need a bit of help., please. Previous thread wasn't getting any feedback, hence my repost.
    20x40 in-ground concrete "vintage" pool
    Approx 35k gal
    Concrete, plaster and epoxy paint
    Sand filter
    DIY plaster resurface repairs completed 6/2015.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Please help us rid of $600-$850/m pool service!

    Looking at your posts, you have a few (long-distance) challenges such as:
    - FC is definitely low. It should ideally hoover at the target of 4. When it drops below the minimum FC of 2 (based on your CYA of 30), that's when algae comes-in.
    - If you have algae in there now, then you need to SLAM via Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain. This means someone will need to be there consistently throughout the day to add the required amount of bleach to "maintain" that higher SLAM/Shock FC level of 12 based on your current CYA. The FC must stay at 12 until you pass the 3 SLAM criteria listed on that SLAM page. No amount of vacuuming or filtering alone will resolve your problem. It must be SLAMmed.
    - We don't recommend using tablets/pucks. They raise your CYA to dangerous levels that, over time, become unmanageable. The longer you leave them in, the higher your CYA will go, which in-turn means your FC must also increase.
    - Reinforce to whomever is watching your pool that they only use products recommend by TFP at Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals.

    If your water is not too bad right now, a proper SLAM may be completed in a week or less. But if the SLAM instructions cannot be maintained, the algae will not be killed. Hope this helps get you going. If you have any more questions, just let us know.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Please help us rid of $600-$850/m pool service!

    Quote Originally Posted by Household6 View Post
    Guys, I hate to be a pest, but I really need a bit of help., please. Previous thread wasn't getting any feedback, hence my repost.
    As already mentioned, that FC is way too low, get it up to the recommended target per your CYA additions before you start an algae bloom.

    Those tricolor tablets are going to add CYA as well, and it's going to take a week to register in your test. What is your target for CYA?

    With a couple of months pool care $$ you could install a SWG for daily FC and visit the pool less frequently if the tenants are willing to test.

    I really can't comment on your timeline, I don't know what the current state of the pool is. If you have been letting the FC drop that low on a regular basis you could be looking at a full SLAM.

    Dom
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